Cavechat.org

Released date of yesterday, North Carolina just put out their WNS Surveillance and Response Plan:

http://static.whitenosesyndrome.org/sites/default/files/resource/nc_wns_surveillance_response_plan_with_appendices_18jan2013.pdf

NC WNS plan wrote:V. Management of Caves and Mines

1) The Nature Conservancy, National Park Service, NCWRC, NC Division of Parks and Recreation, and US Forest Service has closed caves and mines in North Carolina. The US Fish & Wildlife Service has issued a cave advisory recommending suspension of activities in caves to protect bats from White-nose Syndrome (http://whitenosesyndrome.org/faq/what-u ... e-advisory), with the exception of agency sanctioned research or monitoring projects.

2) Meet regularly, as needed, with the NC Bat Working Group, Flittermouse Grotto, private cave owners, state and federal agencies, and other organizations to review the status of WNS and cave management in North Carolina.

3) Post signs about WNS and/or USFWS protocols at select sites.

Translation: 1: Close everything, everywhere. 2: Meet occasionally for review, maybe; keep everything closed. 3: Post threatening signs about everything being closed. ... This is more of a "lack of response" plan than any kind of response, unfortunately. I don't know why on earth I bothered sticking my head back in this forum.

technically they just stated who had closed caves and the advisory opinion of the USFWS. They didn't actually state any caves should be closed and importantly did not specify that private landowners should be instructed to do so, though "informing" them about WNS is pretty broad.

There is for instance, no reason that TNC could decide to open caves and not still be in line with the plan.

This is classic politics. Write a plan so general it can be interpreted in any way needed as priorities or politics change.

Has anyone noticed how often The Nature Conservancy is always involved with the closure of caves? Are you a contributor to the
Nature Conservancy? I really think you should rethink your donation plan if you are a contributor. Just my humble opinion of course.

NC WNS plan wrote:V. Management of Caves and Mines

1) The Nature Conservancy, National Park Service, NCWRC, NC Division of Parks and Recreation, and US Forest Service has closed caves and mines in North Carolina. The US Fish & Wildlife Service has issued a cave advisory recommending suspension of activities in caves to protect bats from White-nose Syndrome (http://whitenosesyndrome.org/faq/what-u ... e-advisory), with the exception of agency sanctioned research or monitoring projects.

2) Meet regularly, as needed, with the NC Bat Working Group, Flittermouse Grotto, private cave owners, state and federal agencies, and other organizations to review the status of WNS and cave management in North Carolina.

3) Post signs about WNS and/or USFWS protocols at select sites.

TNC=Totally Never Caving.

I think it has a lot of good parts. Especially when I practice suspension of disbelief about Section V.2, "meet regularly as needed".



So, here's my question...

How do other cavers feel about naming of bat roost caves in a very public way?

I would prefer that caves/roosts be given a "number" that the agencies relate to an actual location, but don't publish on the internet and in News Releases. Names should be shared with folks they are coordinating with, and one cave at a time with the public if there is a specific big news event.

I think it has a lot of good parts. Especially when I practice suspension of disbelief about Section V.2, "meet regularly as needed".



So, here's my question...

How do other cavers feel about naming of bat roost caves in a very public way?

I would prefer that caves/roosts be given a "number" that the agencies relate to an actual location, but don't publish on the internet and in News Releases. Names should be shared with folks they are coordinating with, and one cave at a time with the public if there is a specific big news event.

bigredfoote,

Hmm. Well, they aren't giving locations, just names. I've had numerous requests from cavers during this WNS era that they be told which caves are affected so they could avoid them. Here, folks can see the names, and if they know the cave, can avoid it as appropriate. Some other state's plans have done the same. I don't see a big problem with that.

My overall impression of the plan is that it's pretty broad, but not terribly restrictive in terms of caving. As wyandottecaver pointed out, it merely lists the closures that already exist, and doesn't really push anything further.

It also prioritizes bat caves, which is a good thing, I think. And, unlike some other states, the caving community was involved. Another impression I got is that North Carolina acknowledges that bats are the primary transmitters of this disease, and there likely isn't much to be done about that:

Containment: While research continues on the effectiveness of potential treatments and other containment measures, there are currently no viable, research supported containment measures applicable in North Carolina.

Beyond that, most of the plan is for monitoring and surveillance, and repeats protocols for endangered bats and sample taking, building base line data for non-listed species as well. I think that's a good thing.

TNCaver,

TNC is also often associated with buying property with caves and letting people cave in them.
In IND TNC manages or owns several caves that are open, and in fact altered management of one project cave entrance for the sole purpose of allowing exploration and survey.

TNC is often associated with cave closures because they own a lot of caves and are accountable for how they are managed to a diverse group. They need to not only meet the expectations of government agencies, but those who give them money, as well as making the best decisions they can based on what they know....which is sometimes not much more than what a USFWS advisory tells them.

The NSS and many state cave conservancies also have in the past, and in some cases are still, closing caves based on WNS and THEY have a very focused interest group and at least in theory should be very in tune with the issue.

No Nature Conservancy caves in TN are open since WNS arrived here and TNC has bought a bunch more land and caves and closed all the caves immediately. The Nature Conservancy has also worked with state and federal agencies to close as many caves as they can in TN. I still suggest anyone who is a contributor to that organization, reconsider their donations. If you would like for me to send you
some links to Nature Conservancy irregularities from their past just let me know. They are not the pristine group they would like everyone to think they are.

wyandottecaver wrote:TNCaver,

TNC is also often associated with buying property with caves and letting people cave in them.
In IND TNC manages or owns several caves that are open, and in fact altered management of one project cave entrance for the sole purpose of allowing exploration and survey.

TNC is often associated with cave closures because they own a lot of caves and are accountable for how they are managed to a diverse group. They need to not only meet the expectations of government agencies, but those who give them money, as well as making the best decisions they can based on what they know....which is sometimes not much more than what a USFWS advisory tells them.

The NSS and many state cave conservancies also have in the past, and in some cases are still, closing caves based on WNS and THEY have a very focused interest group and at least in theory should be very in tune with the issue.

Well, if you have spare cash to donate and want to help buy caves for cavers that wont be gated or closed you can send checks to me.

Otherwise, if you support the general mission of TNC and want to change how some regions handle their cave policies, you might try letting their corporate HQ know. Since TNC has no qualms at all with laying off or replacing staff at the drop of a hat, If enough paying members gripe about the same local managers, I'm pretty sure the outcome can be predicted.

FWIW: The NSS has an MOU with TNC (Log in with NSS# and zip) The NSS's TNC liaison is Cory Holliday, who is a TNC employee responsible for "cave research and protection efforts" in Tennessee.

Thanks Cheryl,

I knew the NSS had a MOU with TNC. I didn't know our contact was Cory Holiday.....It's all so clear now......