Hope Fading for WV Bats

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Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby Cheryl Jones » Mar 1, 2012 11:11 am

[reposted from the VAR list-serv, by David Riggs]
WV Metro News published a 5-minute audio interview with Craig Stihler, wildlife biologist with the WV DNR, on the topic of
White-Nose Syndrome in West Virginia. Unlike many shoddy media reports, this is all first-hand from Craig himself. He points out the
"silver cloud lining" that our endangered Virginia Big-Eared bats seem completely unaffected by WNS, and cavers will be glad to hear that he
doesn't point any fingers at us for its introduction or spread. He also states that he feels the biggest priority now is to avoid
stressing the imperiled remaining bat populations in the hope that they can make a long-term recovery.

Article "Hope Fading for WV's Bats":
http://wvmetronews.com/outdoors.cfm?fun ... ryid=51183

Direct audio link:
http://mediaserver.citynet.net/metronews/Stihler-1.wma
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby BrianC » Mar 1, 2012 2:17 pm

I do appreciate that he doesn't imply (as has happened in the past) that cavers are a likely transport of the White Nose Syndrome Fungus through the Gd spores, but he really doesn't have a leg to stand on! Now he want's us to not bother the bats by staying out of caves. I do remember some interesting documents stating that while worried about waking and disturbing hibernating bats, some researchers found that once they started more frequent bat counts, the bats actually increased in numbers considerably!
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby PeterFJohnson » Mar 1, 2012 4:13 pm

BrianC wrote:I do remember some interesting documents stating that while worried about waking and disturbing hibernating bats, some researchers found that once they started more frequent bat counts, the bats actually increased in numbers considerably!


I am unfamiliar with the documents you refer to, but just from what you have stated I am a bit skeptical. Of course bat counts are going to change the number of bats that we know are out there. If we already know how many bats there are why would we do a bat count? But that doesn't necessarily mean the bat counts are changing the number of bats. They might just be changing our perception of how many bats there are.

In other words you and/or they might be confusing causation with correlation. Just because a large number of bat counts correlates with more bats counted does not necessarily mean that the bat counts caused the bats to multiply. I don't know if this is what you meant to imply with your above statement, but it is was I believe most people would infer just that from your statement.
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby BrianC » Mar 1, 2012 5:19 pm

PeterFJohnson wrote:
BrianC wrote:I do remember some interesting documents stating that while worried about waking and disturbing hibernating bats, some researchers found that once they started more frequent bat counts, the bats actually increased in numbers considerably!


I am unfamiliar with the documents you refer to, but just from what you have stated I am a bit skeptical. Of course bat counts are going to change the number of bats that we know are out there. If we already know how many bats there are why would we do a bat count? But that doesn't necessarily mean the bat counts are changing the number of bats. They might just be changing our perception of how many bats there are.

In other words you and/or they might be confusing causation with correlation. Just because a large number of bat counts correlates with more bats counted does not necessarily mean that the bat counts caused the bats to multiply. I don't know if this is what you meant to imply with your above statement, but it is was I believe most people would infer just that from your statement.


Well, lets just say that some research has shown that some minor disturbance during hibernation has shown the opposite of hurting the bats. Cavers have never entered hibernation caves while occupied, unless a special need was justified, but some research has shown that after continued minor disturbance, the bat numbers have increased over time. The one benefit of White Nose Syndrome is that we are learning much more about many different bats, not just endangered bats that have federal money attached to their heads.
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby Pippin » Mar 1, 2012 7:39 pm

Brian, I don't know what you're talking about, but disturbing bats while they're hibernating is NOT good. I have never heard of any study anywhere that suggests continued minor disturbances over time increases bat numbers. Everything I've ever heard or read suggests the exact opposite. I listened to the interview, and the guy is saying to stay out of caves when bats hibernate, and that's what we've always done, what we should continue to do, and what we should tell others to do. He didn't say to stay out of all caves. But that being said, I don't think it's very responsible to imply that it's OK to disturb hibernating bats, because it's not.

It's really weird the Virginia Big-Eared bats seem unaffected by WNS. I hope that's true of grays and some other species too. Still no sign of WNS in north Alabama or southern Tennessee, and that's also good news.
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby PYoungbaer » Mar 1, 2012 7:54 pm

Pippin wrote:It's really weird the Virginia Big-Eared bats seem unaffected by WNS. I hope that's true of grays and some other species too.


When Hellhole was surveyed in 2010, I had speculated ahead of time with Craig Stihler that the VBEs might not be affected, even though we knew the Little Browns were. Why? They are an entirely different species. They are much bigger, which may help fend off the disease. They also arouse very quickly, which may imply their immune systems aren't shut down like the Little Browns when hibernating. That physiological response may make a huge difference in why the fungus can get a foothold in one species but not another - or less so in another.

Then there's the microclimate issues. The VBE's roost in low humidity (@70%) vs. near 100% for the Little Browns, and also in much colder parts of the cave. That combination of factors seems to have served the VBEs well in resisting WNS.

Now, the Gray bats are a Myotis species, same as the Little Browns, Eastern Small-footed, Northern Long-eared, and Indianas. They are also dense roosters. That may not bode well for them, but the more southern range may indeed help. I think we'll just have to continue waiting to see.

And you're absolutely correct - avoiding hibernating bats is good caving and conservation practice.
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby wyandottecaver » Mar 1, 2012 9:55 pm

not to discount entirely what has been said, but there *is* evidence (thermal cameras fixed at roosting clusters 24/7 for a whole winter during commercial tours) that shows bats are not necessarily impacted by disturbance levels to which they have been acclimated over time. That just means all bat caves (and bat populations) are not equal in their tolerance to disturbance.
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby driggs » Mar 1, 2012 10:49 pm

Cheryl Jones wrote:[reposted from the VAR list-serv]


Cheryl, if you're not going to ask permission to re-post my words elsewhere, could you at least have the courtesy to quote me? :down:
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby Cheryl Jones » Mar 2, 2012 7:47 am

Sorry! I'll amend the initial post.
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Re: Hope Fading for WV Bats

Postby BrianC » Mar 2, 2012 9:39 am

wyandottecaver wrote:not to discount entirely what has been said, but there *is* evidence (thermal cameras fixed at roosting clusters 24/7 for a whole winter during commercial tours) that shows bats are not necessarily impacted by disturbance levels to which they have been acclimated over time. That just means all bat caves (and bat populations) are not equal in their tolerance to disturbance.


One very relevant example, but as I stated, cavers do generally stay away from hibernating caves!!!! and of course, any bats that might be in those hibernating caves. :rofl:
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