Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

This is a forum intended only for discussion of White Nose Syndrome.

Moderator: Moderators

Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby BrianC » Feb 10, 2012 8:58 am

“Liberty Park is surrounded by subdivisions, and unfortunately there are a lot of
off-trail hikers who wander the woods there and go into these caves,” said Mike
Johnson, chief of natural resources for Metro Parks, Serving Summit County. “They’re
not only violating park rules by being in these protected areas, but they may actually be
spreading the disease and making things worse.

http://caves.org/WNS/Bat-killing-fungus-detected-at-Liberty-Park-02-01-12.pdf

"Its no nice to fool mother nature" Actually, this accusation is only being spread because of misinformation spread by the USFWS. Where's the proof? They have continually required proof that humans don't spread WNS, but they say what they want without recourse.
User avatar
BrianC
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2061
Joined: Oct 2, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: up on this here mountain
  

Re: Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby cavemud2 » Feb 10, 2012 10:40 am

Well of course it was the hikers ...it most certainly did not spread by the bats themselves.....
Randy Gandy Club 2011 :bat sticker:
User avatar
cavemud2
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Parkersburg
NSS #: 62,925
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Parkersburg Area Grotto
  

Re: Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby fireman1904 » Feb 11, 2012 9:57 am

I generally avoid reading the white nose stuff anymore. It is almost always ridiculousness. I had to see what they were saying on this one. I knew it would be as stupid as the majority of the rest of them.

I know its been said before but I really think part of the problem is that the DNR and the USFWS and whoever else is involved really doesn't want to have to deal with people coming on their land, going into caves and risking getting hurt. ( Although I am sure more people get hurt just walking across the same land ). This was the perfect opportunity to use something that could be a legitimate reason to tell people they cannot cave anymore. And now with the "apparent" slowdown of caving activities they have no reason to pay any attention to the research that has been done on the subject since they are getting exactly what they want. If they were to buy into what the research is showing they would receive a lot of pressure from a lot of directions to re-open the caves.

Its also already been proven that closing the caves has had , more than likely, more negative impacts than positive. The SCCi is reopening some caves for this reason.

Just think... if it weren't for cavers no one would have even known all the bats were dying. And certainly would have never known why. :bat:
Mike Woolard
NSS# 49891
HCG, ICS, ISS, SCCi, Chattanooga Grotto
User avatar
fireman1904
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 5, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Monroe City, IN
Name: Mike Woolard
NSS #: 49891
  

Re: Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby PYoungbaer » Feb 11, 2012 12:04 pm

fireman1904 wrote:if it weren't for cavers no one would have even known all the bats were dying. And certainly would have never known why.


This simply isn't true, but I hear your frustration.

While bats dying from WNS were first discovered by cavers in NY, it quickly spread to other caves and mines that are gated and protected and regularly monitored and surveyed by wildlife biologists and other academic researchers. Plus, the public at large reported many instances of bats out on the winter landscape when they shouldn't have been. My point is, we all would have known sooner or later.

"Why" the bats were dying took years of scientific research to eliminate some hypothetical causes and to isolate the cause of WNS as the novel (newly described) fungus, Geomyces destructans That research has been conducted by a huge group of people: cavers, caver scientists, academic researchers, wildlife biologists, and state and federal agency researchers.

It's been all of these people, working together, that have moved the investigation forward. That said, there are still many unanswered questions. Just one example is that while we know the fungus is responsible for killing the bats, we still don't know exactly how. Nor do we know yet why some species are affected and others not, nor why even within affected species, some bats are resistant, and others are showing signs of resilience.

When I read new stories coming out of the western states that wildlife managers don't know where their caves or bats are, but no mention of asking the organized caving community, I get as frustrated as the next person that this obvious resource is untapped. That's not true everywhere, but far too often. There are many excellent examples of cavers assisting and even leading in the work.

The NSS has for decades had Memoranda of Understanding with various federal agencies: U.S. Forest Service, BLM, US Fish and Wildlife, etc. Under these umbrella agreements, local regions, grottos, conservancies, and groups like CRF have formed partnerships through specific agreements to assist in the management of cave and karst resources. This includes far more than just bats. But these agreements enable budget-starved and personnel-short agencies to include an army of conservation -minded cavers in working with the resources they are responsible for managing.

What better time than now for our local and regional entities to form new agreements? This collaboration can only help, not only with WNS, but will all cave and karst management issues. Many of the agency personnel responsible for managing these resources are not cavers, and aren't comfortable underground. We can provide that expertise.

The science of speleology begins with discovery and exploration, surveying and mapping, and cavers identifying potential needs for further scientific investigation. This is when the specialists are called in: geologists, archaeologists, paleontologists, hydrologists, and biologists. In many cases, the cavers are also the scientists, and the NSS's proud history includes over seventy years of peer-reviewed scientific publication in our own Journal of Cave and Karst Studies (formerly the NSS Bulletin).

Blanket cave closures are not stopping WNS from spreading, but they are souring many cavers from collaborating where we otherwise would be and should be. That needs to stop - and it will take change on both ends.

The NSS's early agency agreements were earned and built on personal relationships and demonstrated quality work. Many of the cavers and officials who forged them are no longer around. Perhaps that bred some complacency and the taking of some things for granted. This is no time for complacency. We need to be actively engaged at all levels. Building or rebuilding those relationships is hard work, but it pays long-time dividends on many levels.
PYoungbaer
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1365
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Plainfield, VT
NSS #: 16161 CM FE
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Vermont Cavers Association
  

Re: Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby BrianC » Feb 11, 2012 1:57 pm

PYoungbaer wrote:
The NSS's early agency agreements were earned and built on personal relationships and demonstrated quality work. Many of the cavers and officials who forged them are no longer around. Perhaps that bred some complacency and the taking of some things for granted. This is no time for complacency. We need to be actively engaged at all levels. Building or rebuilding those relationships is hard work, but it pays long-time dividends on many levels.


Peter, I could not disagree more! The real issue is certainly what the federal government believes cavers to be, and what better way to understand this than simply listening to what the media is told we are. Cavers are a wild bunch, by many articles written today where input from the community in control has eluded to. We must simply ask for the federal government to do the right thing. In the case of cave closures, there is overwhelming evidence that closures have had zero impact to the spread of WNS. 0,Zero, nada... We must utilize this information, as well as scientific studies, and demand justice. The MOA's have been in effect, and what have they done? Nada, 0, zilch, for us. Demand that we be listened to. It is time to give up on being nice, and go through the judicial system so that we cannot be pushed aside any longer. We have overwhelming evidence at this point, and that is all that is required. Peter, you can spearhead this, or you can listen to those that are benefiting financially from the closures through research and study. If you won't get on-board, then we must find someone that will. A degree in history and government should be all that is necessary to be heard by the courts. Any takers?
:cavingrocks: :cave softly: :funny post: :off topic: :boxing: :argue: :yikes:

By the way, Now that hikers have been also added to the bad people list (actually this is the second time that I know about), we can get many more ecological concerned citizens involved. This should be just a start. Companies that should know about this like many of the outdoor retailers could be included, once they find out what is about to happen to their customers rights just like what has happened to cavers rights.!!!
User avatar
BrianC
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2061
Joined: Oct 2, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: up on this here mountain
  

Re: Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby fireman1904 » Feb 12, 2012 8:20 am

Oh.. and I know this has been touched on too but it seems that the government ( dnr etc.) is very concerned about the bats and the spread of the disease. Unless there is money involved. For example Twin Caves at Spring Mill Park in Indiana. I am not sure about right now but as of a few months ago the entire cave system which includes several caves separated by karst windows was closed to protect the bats. But for a few bucks you can take a boat ride into part of it?? At Mammoth Cave they have you walk through a thing with some type of disinfectant or whatever. As if your shoes are the only possible way you can carry it in. I know at least in my case the last time I visited the shoes I wore on the tour had never seen a cave. It seems to me to be a formality to make it look like the government is more concerned than it really is. And of course they want to look like the "good guys". I can't say that I don't understand where they are coming from. Even non profit organizations take money to run. And if they have to cater to us cavers and we are not paying to cave then it's doing them no good. And say what you want but everyone knows that when you say government you must also say money at the same time. And now we are dragging hikers into it... hmm yet another group that tends to get to use government land without having to pay, or pay very little.

Now please don't take me wrong. I do not want to see bats dying. I am going to do my part in protecting them. But unless you gate every cave in the world you are not going to keep people out of them. And by telling us we can't cave its going to be more likely that the people there really don't care at all ( mostly non-real cavers) will be the ones in the caves... probably doing more than giving the bats white nose.

I am sure that this is going to be around for a long time. And we as cavers are going to have to deal with it for even longer. Don't think that when the day comes that either all the bats are gone or the disease is eradicated that they are just going to say....OK you can all go caving now.

Anyway. I am done complaining. Its all been said. A lot of it proven. And very little has changed.
Mike Woolard
NSS# 49891
HCG, ICS, ISS, SCCi, Chattanooga Grotto
User avatar
fireman1904
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 5, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Monroe City, IN
Name: Mike Woolard
NSS #: 49891
  

Re: Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby PYoungbaer » Feb 12, 2012 11:42 am

BrianC wrote:A degree in history and government should be all that is necessary to be heard by the courts. Any takers?


But it's not. It takes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
PYoungbaer
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1365
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Plainfield, VT
NSS #: 16161 CM FE
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Vermont Cavers Association
  

Re: Ohio hikers blamed for spreading White Nose Syndrome

Postby BrianC » Feb 12, 2012 1:15 pm

PYoungbaer wrote:
BrianC wrote:A degree in history and government should be all that is necessary to be heard by the courts. Any takers?


But it's not. It takes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


With an extremely strong case, it will prevail!
User avatar
BrianC
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2061
Joined: Oct 2, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: up on this here mountain
  


Return to White Nose Syndrome (WNS)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron