Action Alert request for WNS funding

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Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby PYoungbaer » Nov 3, 2011 12:34 pm

Action Alert: Please sign an on-line "We The People" petition to help get research funding for White Nose Syndrome in the federal budget.

The NSS is joining Bat Conservation International and others in requesting President Obama to include funding for WNS in the Administration's 2013 budget.

The mechanism for doing this is a "We The People" petition, operated by the White House (http://wh.gov/TNK). We need 25,000 names by November 25 to pass the established benchmark for the staff to recognize the issue and evaluate it for the President. The petition language is fairly general; specifics can be dealt with once the threshold is reached and staff begins to focus on the details.

The petition can be found here:

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/fund-fight-against-white-nose-syndrome-president%E2%80%99s-fiscal-year-2013-budget/jH8Z4Fsl

If you are already have a whitehouse.gov account click "Sign In" enter your information and then click "Sign this Petition." If you are new to the whitehouse.gov webpage click "Create an Account." You will be sent an automated email to verify your new account and then you can return and click "Sign this Petition."

WNS is likely to be with us for some time, and this is the best way to help ensure ongoing long-term funding. In the short-term, please donate to the NSS' WNS Rapid Response Fund. We continue to have research funding requests for more immediate projects and need to replenish the fund: http://www.caves.org/WNS/Rapid_Response.shtml

Thank you.
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby BrianC » Nov 3, 2011 1:53 pm

When they get off their mighty butts and realize that closing caves was a bad idea, then I will also give them some help. "We The People" want our caves back! Until then, they don't deserve anything!

I don't take the cave closings ( without any more than conjecture) lightly! I love my bats, and want no harm to come to them, but I also know that humans don't spread WNS! Wait until they test Gd on a rats arse, and see what comes out of it?
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby DeanWiseman » Nov 3, 2011 8:41 pm

PYoungbaer wrote:Action Alert: Please sign an on-line "We The People" petition to help get research funding for White Nose Syndrome in the federal budget.

We need 25,000 names by November 25 to pass the established benchmark for the staff to recognize the issue and evaluate it for the President.



24,999... :bananabat: :big grin:


-Dean


p.s. Seriously. This is a good cause, worthy of our support in any way we can give it.


p.p.s. Keep deconning your gear. :bat sticker:
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby PYoungbaer » Nov 3, 2011 9:12 pm

Over 1700 already and counting. Thank you.
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby Pippin » Nov 4, 2011 7:28 am

Brian, the research just published in Nature everyone's been talking about was funded in large part by the USGS and FWS (tax dollars). We need to do everything we can to get additional funding for that kind of good research. More research is the fastest way to make gov't agencies 'get off their mighty butts' and move towards more reasonable management policies. I'm not crazy about how much of our money goes towards writing WNS plans (especially since FWS evidently can't be bothered to update the horribly outdated caving advisory), but I want more money directed towards research. I'm about to create an account and sign it.
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby BrianC » Nov 4, 2011 8:20 am

Pippin wrote:Brian, the research just published in Nature everyone's been talking about was funded in large part by the USGS and FWS (tax dollars). We need to do everything we can to get additional funding for that kind of good research. More research is the fastest way to make gov't agencies 'get off their mighty butts' and move towards more reasonable management policies. I'm not crazy about how much of our money goes towards writing WNS plans (especially since FWS evidently can't be bothered to update the horribly outdated caving advisory), but I want more money directed towards research. I'm about to create an account and sign it.


Pippin, you know that in most any case that gives the environment real help I will be all in. The problem with funding WNS comes at me with the reality that more than $24 million dollars have been thrown at the name WNS research, and we have a few bats and a few cages where test show Kooks Postulate? That is a lot of money for what I have seen realized. There is absolutely no human transmission research needed (nothing provides any evidence to necessitate this research) There is evidence that shows bats have been spreading a horrible disease killing many of the species and understanding this tragedy does warrant some capital for this understanding. I am not one that believes we the people have any responsibility ( or even the ability ) to control mother nature. A scientific understanding would be good to have, but not at the expense already thrown at the issue.The NSS may as well join the CBD in their efforts as that is exactly where the NSS has arrived. If cavers don't see this, then their blindness is no excuse. I do however feel the responsibility to point out this blindness and fallacy of using ( "the Human encroachment") as an excuse to fund researchers habits. There are many wealthy people that would be willing to fund bat research, and they certainly do, but they want to see results for their investments. The federal funding can provide no definitive results because that would be an end of funding ( we all know that that will not happen. So in a nutshell, The NSS should support private funding only because they will actually get some bang for their buck. Any federal funding just means that we as cavers will not see the dark of caves for a long, long. long. time.

SAY NO! to this or be a supporter of the CBD!
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby PYoungbaer » Nov 12, 2011 10:51 pm

Slow, but steady. Passed the 2,500 signature benchmark this evening. A little over 10% of the way there. Need to get to 25,000 by Nov. 25. Spread the word. Thanks.
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby Tito the Turtle » Nov 16, 2011 1:41 pm

Nine days left. Start printing out flyers!
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby wyandottecaver » Nov 16, 2011 6:27 pm

giving cannibals wood for the fire while your standing in the pot IMHO.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby 1oldbuzzard » Nov 16, 2011 7:03 pm

BrianC wrote:
Pippin wrote:Brian, the research just published in Nature everyone's been talking about was funded in large part by the USGS and FWS (tax dollars). We need to do everything we can to get additional funding for that kind of good research. More research is the fastest way to make gov't agencies 'get off their mighty butts' and move towards more reasonable management policies. I'm not crazy about how much of our money goes towards writing WNS plans (especially since FWS evidently can't be bothered to update the horribly outdated caving advisory), but I want more money directed towards research. I'm about to create an account and sign it.


Pippin, you know that in most any case that gives the environment real help I will be all in. The problem with funding WNS comes at me with the reality that more than $24 million dollars have been thrown at the name WNS research, and we have a few bats and a few cages where test show Kooks Postulate? That is a lot of money for what I have seen realized. There is absolutely no human transmission research needed (nothing provides any evidence to necessitate this research) There is evidence that shows bats have been spreading a horrible disease killing many of the species and understanding this tragedy does warrant some capital for this understanding. I am not one that believes we the people have any responsibility ( or even the ability ) to control mother nature. A scientific understanding would be good to have, but not at the expense already thrown at the issue.The NSS may as well join the CBD in their efforts as that is exactly where the NSS has arrived. If cavers don't see this, then their blindness is no excuse. I do however feel the responsibility to point out this blindness and fallacy of using ( "the Human encroachment") as an excuse to fund researchers habits. There are many wealthy people that would be willing to fund bat research, and they certainly do, but they want to see results for their investments. The federal funding can provide no definitive results because that would be an end of funding ( we all know that that will not happen. So in a nutshell, The NSS should support private funding only because they will actually get some bang for their buck. Any federal funding just means that we as cavers will not see the dark of caves for a long, long. long. time.

SAY NO! to this or be a supporter of the CBD!


I can't believe that the NSS would appeal to the very Federal Government that has shown its intentions of closing all caves and mines on private property. I would quickly sign a petition to tell the Feds to get their bureaucratic controlling hands off the caves that belong to the American taxpayers. Millions of money our bankrupt government doesn't have to keep the fat grants coming to a privileged few, doesn't seem to me to be in the interests of Joe and Jane average caver and their kids. I have yet to see any progress that throwing money at the WNS has done to stop the spread. Again, we are threatened with an ecological disaster of cataclysmic proportions which will befall us if the Academics, the Bureaucrats, and the grant farmers don't act soon. I declare that the bats will survive the epidemic. There are plenty of bats, "rare and endangered" species included, that roost in hollow trees, attics, old warehouses, under bridges, in barns, in crevices in bluffs and even in the government buildings that bureaucrats frequent. A high school level review of fungi and how they reproduce might give some thinkers a little fuel for thought as to how ridiculous some of the control measures really are. Wail and cry for the bats! They will survive! Government intervention into such problems rarely brings about a satisfactory solution. When the smoke of the issue clears, we see a pile of new federal restrictions, which always have a nasty habit of remaining on the books. A few academics will have fared well on the grants, and the focus moves on to another threat, real or imagined. The real issue that the NSS ought to be addressing is the freedom to continue sport caving in America. I recently saw a warning sign placed on a private cave by a State Game and Fish Commission working in collusion with a private "conservation group" which threatened prosecution and a $100,000 fine for each instance of entry. This of course exempts the "experts" who are there to protect a miniscule cave snail which in the words of the protectorate experts, would be "trampled underfoot" by cavers. These exempted experts are now the only ones allowed access and the only ones who can report the status and health of the cave snail populations. Pretty elite little caving group, huh. WNS experts can play the same game.
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby BrianC » Nov 17, 2011 4:56 pm

1oldbuzzard wrote:
I can't believe that the NSS would appeal to the very Federal Government that has shown its intentions of closing all caves and mines on private property. I would quickly sign a petition to tell the Feds to get their bureaucratic controlling hands off the caves that belong to the American taxpayers. Millions of money our bankrupt government doesn't have to keep the fat grants coming to a privileged few, doesn't seem to me to be in the interests of Joe and Jane average caver and their kids. I have yet to see any progress that throwing money at the WNS has done to stop the spread. Again, we are threatened with an ecological disaster of cataclysmic proportions which will befall us if the Academics, the Bureaucrats, and the grant farmers don't act soon. I declare that the bats will survive the epidemic. There are plenty of bats, "rare and endangered" species included, that roost in hollow trees, attics, old warehouses, under bridges, in barns, in crevices in bluffs and even in the government buildings that bureaucrats frequent. A high school level review of fungi and how they reproduce might give some thinkers a little fuel for thought as to how ridiculous some of the control measures really are. Wail and cry for the bats! They will survive! Government intervention into such problems rarely brings about a satisfactory solution. When the smoke of the issue clears, we see a pile of new federal restrictions, which always have a nasty habit of remaining on the books. A few academics will have fared well on the grants, and the focus moves on to another threat, real or imagined. The real issue that the NSS ought to be addressing is the freedom to continue sport caving in America. I recently saw a warning sign placed on a private cave by a State Game and Fish Commission working in collusion with a private "conservation group" which threatened prosecution and a $100,000 fine for each instance of entry. This of course exempts the "experts" who are there to protect a miniscule cave snail which in the words of the protectorate experts, would be "trampled underfoot" by cavers. These exempted experts are now the only ones allowed access and the only ones who can report the status and health of the cave snail populations. Pretty elite little caving group, huh. WNS experts can play the same game.



Why is it that so many young ( and a few older) folks don't see this? :doh:
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby innermostphoto » Nov 17, 2011 8:08 pm

No, not signing any petition that promotes a knee jerk reaction and feeds the ones that closed the caves for no legitimate reason. Additionally, I have yet to realize why a caving organization (NSS) promotes the closure of caves by funding WNS procedures. If anything you should be creating a petition to open the caves. I'll sign that one!

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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby John Lovaas » Nov 17, 2011 11:07 pm

Strangely enough, the only way to combat WNS BS is by gaining facts and evidence. And I'm pretty sure the only way to do that is by conducting research.

If someone could point out some privately funded impartial research that I could support, I'd be happy to do so. In the interim, I'll happily fund public research.

As Jennifer Pinkley so ably pointed out in this thread, and many succeeding commenters so ably ignored, the very research that demonstrated the difficulty of aerosol transmission- a study that excited virtually everyone commenting in this thread- was funded by the very same means that the naysayers here are now telling us is a pointless effort.

Caves were closed due to fear, blind speculation, and ignorance; absent supporting facts and evidence, would someone explain how fear, blind speculation, and ignorance will open up closed caves?

On second thought, don't bother. I fear a rambling tirade, like something from one of the characters in the final bar scene in Under The Volcano.
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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby innermostphoto » Nov 17, 2011 11:35 pm

Um..no but thanks for playing. Still not signing.

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Re: Action Alert request for WNS funding

Postby John Lovaas » Nov 18, 2011 7:18 am

innermostphoto wrote:Um..no but thanks for playing. Still not signing.

bob biddix


Thanks for the reasoned and well crafted reply.
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