CBD Files Intent to Sue in 30 Days if Caves Not Closed

[PYoungbaer]

The Center for Biological Diversity filed a formal Intent to Sue in 30 days letter with the Obama Administration yesterday, if the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the U.S. Forest Service, and the Department of Defense did not immediately close caves and mines on federal land.

Here's the press release:
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2011/white-nose-syndrome-05-25-2011.html

In the press release are two additional links: the first to the actual rather lengthy letter; the second to a CBD web page, which delineates their entire WNS campaign.

The formal letter is again addressed to Secretaries of the Interior, Agriculture, and Defense (Salazar, Vilsack, and Gates), and chastises the government for not acting on their more-than-year-old original petition.

It reiterates the call for closing all caves and mines on federal land known to harbor bats - without exception. It reiterates the call for amending the definition of "take" under the Endangered Species Act. It also calls for designating every cave (used by bats or not) on federal land as "significant" under the Federal Cave Resources Protection Act.

I urge everyone to read the letter in full.

[graveleye]

who funds these people? Where do they get their money from?

[Scott McCrea]

How do they think this will help bats? Are they going to close the caves to bats, too?

[boogercaver71]

who funds these people? Where do they get their money from?

I have looked through their website. They get about 20 million a year from anonymous donors and probably grants from other environmental groups. Most of this money goes to hire lawyers not scientists. They have a lobbying group based out of DC

[John Lovaas]

Ah- nice way to get the pulse rate up first thing in the AM; thanks, Peter ;-)

At my relatively young age(48), the only tiny shard of wisdom I can offer anyone is that I have been constantly amazed by the horrible lies people will tell, and the horrible things people will do to others, just to collect a paycheck.

And that, to me, lies at the heart of the CBD's actions to date. A group of lawyers and biologists(two vocations where supply currently exceeds demand), working for a non-profit(not so good times for non-profits at the moment), in the midst of the worst economic period since the Great Depression, with student loans and mortgages and families and where on earth are they going to find another job in this economy.... scary times.

What's wrong with presenting a little blind speculation as fact, or simply telling a few lies, in order to tug at the heartstrings of potential donors? The stakeholders in this issue are utterly nameless and faceless to them. And, after all- everyone does it, don't they? They're selling the CBD brand, and we know that a few 'white lies' go a long way in marketing and advertising.

I found 3 serious errors in the letter in the course of drinking one cup of coffee. I would hope that our nation's Secretaries of Agriculture, Defense, and Interior, and the directors of the BLM, USFS, and USFWS see the BS in this as well as I can.

As an aside- I hope that all NSS members with a Facebook presence join the CBD's not-quite-brand-new "Save Our Bats" group today-

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Our- ... 65?sk=wall

The Wisconsin DNR monitored Facebook(and by extension, all internet discussion)activity regarding their plans very closely; it would behoove us, as cavers, to monitor the CBD dba "Save Our Bats" just as closely. What's that phrase- 'speak truth to power?'

[batrotter]

who funds these people? Where do they get their money from?

Liberals

[cavedad]

Not THIS liberal!! First, I would suggest that your post is in violation of the Cavechat TOS. But more importantly, a huge number of your fellow cavers out here are pretty darned liberal thinking folks - The kind of folks who will defend your freedom to be a conservative in this great county of ours! Also folks who are willing to defend your (and our) right to cave. Please don't paint us with the broad brush of ignorance and hatefulness.

A "liberal" caver

[cavermom]

I hope everyone is searching for news articles on this topic where comments are allowed, and expressing their opinion. I found one here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110526/us_nm/us_bats_1

[nathanroser]

Shouldn't we be sending letters to the federal agencies about how the CBD is not basing their campaign on good science and that cave and mine closures have not done anything to prevent bat losses.

[wyandottecaver]

in light of the "arab spring" sweeping the middle east, perhaps we should clean our own house a bit. The phrase "shoot the lawyers first" comes to mind


Just like John said above and I have explained in depth before,The CBD makes its money in essentially the same way howard stern, rush limbaugh, and pastor "the end is here" camping do. They draw attention to themselves through extremisim....The attention is what is important....not the topic. Never mind if what they are saying is actually the whole truth...it usually isn't. They then either get paid by advertisers who in turn milk fools of their money through products, or they do the milking of the fools themselves directly through "sympathetic" donations.

The CBD aren't fools, and they probably aren't even "against" caving. They are simply pushing the right buttons to keep the donors donating. Certainly there ARE people who do genuinely believe the CBD position or at least believe the CBD is a reliable source of truth....I think the CBD just isn't among them.

I would point people to the various NSS HQ threads to see this same process at work internally. In our case, Some of the various players aren't trying to seperate fools from their money...at least yet. They are just trying to get them to vote the "right" way. Just as in the case of the CBD, what they say doesn't matter as long as they convince you to believe in, vote, and ultimately pay.

I know people who really believe in the CBD. I also know people who believe in Santa Claus.

[cavermom]

The CBD aren't fools, and they probably aren't even "against" caving. They are simply pushing the right buttons to keep the donors donating.

I'm not so sure after reading the comments by one, obviously CBD supporter here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/ ... K220110526

[trogman]

So I went to their facebook page, and saw that a few of my fellow cavers had posted comments (good stuff, BTW). I just couldn't bring myself to hit the "Like" button so that I could comment on it as well. I guess I could have done it, but it just irked me so much to do it. I know, I can 'Unlike" it later, but I would hate for anyone to misconstue and think I actually supported this crap. I did post a link to it on my own wall, as well as a lengthy comment of my own. I am wondering who would be the best target of an organized campaign to stop this? The White House? The federal agencies that are facing the possible lawsuit? I am unsure how we should fight this, but I know we certainly need to!

Trogman

[wyandottecaver]

cavemom,

Mollie matteson mentioned in the article, is in charge of the CBD. She is required to spout the party line whether she believes it or not.

Trogman,

Don't bother with lawyers, the USFWS, or congressmen. We are fewer and poorer than the CBD and except for Peter, far less ably led.

The best defense is to buy caves.....preferably ones without bats.

The second best defense is inform people with real power (and money) about how this could affect them.

Call ag companies like monsanto and ask them to consider what happens if virtually every bat species is suddenly labeled "endangered" due to a fungus that starves them and CBD notices their products are being used to kill their food sources...

Call mining companies and ask them to consider the implications of it being illegal to even enter a mine for fear of "taking" an endangered species....

Call mayors of cities with commercial caves and ask how much revenue would they lose if those caves were forced to close......

" a drop of water cannot prevail against even a pebble, but a river can carve canyons"

[BrianC]

It might appear that the federal groups have not found the attempts of the CBD's demands credible? It is not very normal that the period of comment be neglected of competent complainants. Who knows, a legal fight would be exactly what is needed to get the truth out! I will look forward to facts being demanded of from all parties involved.

[nathanroser]

We are fewer and poorer than the CBD and except for Peter, far less ably led.

but we have a cave troll.