Has WNS slowed down?

This is a forum intended only for discussion of White Nose Syndrome.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby tncaver » Aug 17, 2011 5:45 pm

wyandottecaver wrote:Here in the US cave temps certainly play a role, but the bigger factor is likely outside temps. First, warmer areas have longer feeding seasons and shorter hibernating seasons. This means a bats period of vulnerability is *presumably* shorter while their period for recovery longer. Second, it means that G.D. on summer bats must endure an enviroment at least marginally poorer for it, while being much better for it's other competitors.

Europe should be used with caution when making comparisons. Not only is the morphology of many of their bats different, but there has been time for those bats, and perhaps competitors to G.D. to evolve. Finally, the MUCH lower density of bats in Britian and other parts of Europe means that the whole dynamic of G.D. spread will likely be different. Think about the flu trying to move between people in southern FL vs the southern Saraha.


I agree with you 100%.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2642
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby innermostphoto » Aug 17, 2011 8:43 pm

Brain C is my new hero! :~) Somehow people just don't understand logic and facts do they. I learned a long time ago when you have a specific goal or agenda the truth just gets in the way.


bob biddix
Innermost Imagery
http://www.innermostimagery.com
User avatar
innermostphoto
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 58
Joined: May 10, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: out there
Primary Grotto Affiliation: insert your own meaningless abbr. here
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby nathanroser » Aug 17, 2011 11:45 pm

My question though is why European bat colonies are smaller. It might be the case that Europe once had large dense colonies of bats like the ones that have been hit hard by WNS here and suffered a similar decline and that the remaining bats are either resistant, or their colonies are small enough that there is not enough fungus growing to spread so virulently as it has here. So it may be that G. destructans originially came to Europe from somewhere else?
User avatar
nathanroser
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 371
Joined: Feb 6, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Name: Nathan Roser
NSS #: 62848
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby tncaver » Aug 18, 2011 7:14 am

I've heard that very few caves are gated in Europe. Perhaps the lack of "protective" gates does not act as an attractant to bats which in turn helps to keep
colonies small and spread out, which in turn reduces mass mortalities due to disease to a minimum. Of course in the US, the all knowing USFWS wants to gate
all bat caves to attract as many as possible to the safety of a gated community. That's also one of the reasons they die in mass numbers here in the US.
Any time a host is grouped into large numbers, it is easier for a disease to kill off larger numbers of them.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2642
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby tncaver » Aug 18, 2011 6:13 pm

innermostphoto wrote:Brain C is my new hero! :~) Somehow people just don't understand logic and facts do they. I learned a long time ago when you have a specific goal or agenda the truth just gets in the way.


bob biddix
Innermost Imagery
http://www.innermostimagery.com


BrianC is my hero too. He's stuck by his convictions and they are accurate.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2642
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby wyandottecaver » Aug 18, 2011 7:59 pm

Brian has certainly stuck by his convictions.....he has always said humans weren't carriers of G.D. even when we had no evidence at all to support that :big grin: But of course the USFWS has stuck by their convictions too....even though we now have evidence supporting the fact that they are wrong. Thats why convictions are generally inferior to conclusions which are generally inferior to data used in context.

Muddy, it seems almost certain that G.D. began in Europe, at least it was certainly there a long long time. As to why the dynamics of their bat colonies are different...thats a guess. G.D. might have knocked them back long ago, the Plague, hungry middle ages peasants, or who knows what.

Certainly the low density plays a role now. How much, again its hard to say.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
User avatar
wyandottecaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Indiana
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby BrianC » Aug 19, 2011 8:52 am

wyandottecaver wrote:Brian has certainly stuck by his convictions.....he has always said humans weren't carriers of G.D. even when we had no evidence at all to support that


I have never said that humans weren't carriers of G.D spores, quite the contrary. Humans don't spread White Nose Syndrome, has always been my statement. Although I do understand mammalian skin bacteria, and spores that spread, and why spores open and replicate whenever their host provides their necessary food source! So does any biologist that works with spores. That is why I make what many would seem to be out of this world remarks. There are those in the USFWS that know the truth!
User avatar
BrianC
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2061
Joined: Oct 2, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: up on this here mountain
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby dfcaver » Aug 22, 2011 7:56 am

More "numbers" from agencies. Piece includes the "received wisdom" that cavers are a large part of the spread.
some caves have been closed to human access to stop the fungus from being introduced.
. The math doesn't add up, either. A 70% decline from 3000 bats would leave about 900 or so. If there's just 16 remaining, that's a bit more than 70% of 3000. Running the numbers gives me 99.47% decline. Maybe math is not a strength for this particular agency. Oh well, more of the same song and dance.

http://www.newhampshire.com/article/201 ... /708179969
dfcaver
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Feb 7, 2009 7:31 am
NSS #: 34158
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Huntingdon County Cave Hunters
  

Re: Has WNS slowed down?

Postby tncaver » Aug 22, 2011 12:30 pm

dfcaver wrote:More "numbers" from agencies. Piece includes the "received wisdom" that cavers are a large part of the spread.
some caves have been closed to human access to stop the fungus from being introduced.
. The math doesn't add up, either. A 70% decline from 3000 bats would leave about 900 or so. If there's just 16 remaining, that's a bit more than 70% of 3000. Running the numbers gives me 99.47% decline. Maybe math is not a strength for this particular agency. Oh well, more of the same song and dance.

http://www.newhampshire.com/article/201 ... /708179969


Not only does the math not add up, neither do their statements and decisions.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2642
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Previous

Return to White Nose Syndrome (WNS)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron