The White Nose Syndrome Industry

[BrianC]

Ever since WNS was discovered in 2006, it has been slowly become industrialized. Every one from Bat researchers to environmental government control groups have benefited financially from this uncontrollable, horribly destructive natural wildlife fiasco. How , at this point, can truthful revelations about wns be realized? The money trail has grown so large, that not one single recipient would want it to diminish. Is it all about the bats? What do you think?

[Chads93GT]

more government spending please.

[BrianC]

more government spending please.

It sure does look this way. The NSS sends and spends lots on WNS as well WNS gets revenue from many other sources.

[climbingallday]

There are certainly folks with a financial interest related to WNS, but it is hardly fair to condemn the whole WNS effort on this factor. Researchers get grants to study many diseases like cancer and AIDS. Would this make them all evil money driven leeches too? The USFWS, USFS, and BLM folks in charge of cave closures make the same amount of money either way. For many researchers and government biologists this has been devastating and threatens to destroy years of their conservation efforts. Many bat biologists are dedicated NSS members as well.

So I would ask who specifically you are referring to? I doubt 409 and Clorox even know this is happening for the most part. There is no way we are using even 1% of their production.

The NSS, The Nature Conservancy and BCI had plenty of members before this. Most non-profits exist for some good cause. You may not agree with what they do, but many people do and support them through donations and time. I can assure you that the non-profits who care about WNS are very sincere.


Neil Marchington

[batrotter]

You nailed it Brian. Every single environmental issue has been coopted and taken over by some sort of money machine. There is plenty of grant money to be had if you know how to milk the government teat. Never let a crisis go to waste.

[climbingallday]

So are you suggesting we stop all research of any disease that pops up?

[BrianC]

There are certainly folks with a financial interest related to WNS, but it is hardly fair to condemn the whole WNS effort on this factor. Researchers get grants to study many diseases like cancer and AIDS. Would this make them all evil money driven leeches too? The USFWS, USFS, and BLM folks in charge of cave closures make the same amount of money either way. For many researchers and government biologists this has been devastating and threatens to destroy years of their conservation efforts. Many bat biologists are dedicated NSS members as well.

So I would ask who specifically you are referring to? I doubt 409 and Clorox even know this is happening for the most part. There is no way we are using even 1% of their production.

The NSS, The Nature Conservancy and BCI had plenty of members before this. Most non-profits exist for some good cause. You may not agree with what they do, but many people do and support them through donations and time. I can assure you that the non-profits who care about WNS are very sincere.


Neil Marchington

Neil, Please don't get me wrong, I realize that many causes in society are completely dependent on research dollars for the good of the people or natural resources.. I also know that that demand for money has been completely confirmed that it will benefit the people or natural resource so that the people can enjoy the benefits. Whit Nose Syndrome does none of the above! White Nose Syndrome is neither controllable, nor will it benefit the people in any way acceptable of the monetary demands asked. Sure the bats eat bugs, the bats pollinate, we don't want to see the bats go extinct. We all would agree here, but we cannot control this horrible disease. This is a huge waste of any taxpayers hard earned money, at least mine. Yes some will want to donate to a larger understanding of the syndrome, and it is up to them to donate to this cause, including the NSS and bat biologists and enthusiasts. I have supported a grotto, and did support the NSS, so some of my money went to the WNS cause, that was my gift. To put bats on the ESA list can not help solve their problem in any regard for their livelihood!. It simply will not help! Now, if you can provide any evidence that I am wrong, I will certainly look at that, but be prepared!

Brian

[LukeM]

I think what they're trying to say is that bat researches should just pay for everything themselves.

[BrianC]

I think what they're trying to say is that bat researches should just pay for everything themselves.

You got it! that or any group that wants to have an understanding of what it is. It is obvious though that throwing money at WNS won't stop it, or control it, so it should not be controlled by our laws or policies.

[Ernie Coffman]

And, the beat goes on...and on...and on. None of us know how long this is going to take scientists to get info on Brian, but if you know of some other way to beat WNS, step up to the plate is my thought. I believe all cavers are totally taken back by all of this, but a good many of them are following along with what has been suggested. Here's another article, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/1 ... 22791.html and the cavers out west are preparing for the worst--closed caves!

[batrotter]

And, the beat goes on...and on...and on. None of us know how long this is going to take scientists to get info on Brian, but if you know of some other way to beat WNS, step up to the plate is my thought. I believe all cavers are totally taken back by all of this, but a good many of them are following along with what has been suggested. Here's another article, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/1 ... 22791.html and the cavers out west are preparing for the worst--closed caves!

That article is nothing more than a PR piece for the Center for Biological Diversity, the very group that is blaming humans and calling for cave closures. It's only fitting that it's on The Huffington Post.

[BrianC]

And, the beat goes on...and on...and on. None of us know how long this is going to take scientists to get info on Brian, but if you know of some other way to beat WNS, step up to the plate is my thought. I believe all cavers are totally taken back by all of this, but a good many of them are following along with what has been suggested. Here's another article, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/1 ... 22791.html and the cavers out west are preparing for the worst--closed caves!

That article is nothing more than a PR piece for the Center for Biological Diversity, the very group that is blaming humans and calling for cave closures. It's only fitting that it's on The Huffington Post.

I saw the Huff part and wasn't going to waste my time reading it. Many folks may not know, but the Huffington Post and CBD are synonymous.

[LukeM]

I think what they're trying to say is that bat researches should just pay for everything themselves.

You got it! that or any group that wants to have an understanding of what it is. It is obvious though that throwing money at WNS won't stop it, or control it, so it should not be controlled by our laws or policies.

Sorry Brian, but if WNS and it's spread wasn't being studied you and I wouldn't be able to have a halfway decent discussion about the disease seeing as how we wouldn't know Jack S#%t. Knowledge is power my friend, even if it can't stop a disease in its tracks.

If you want to complain about federal spending WNS funding is hardly worth your time seeing as it is - I believe - about 0.0006% of spending as a whole. Not a very lucrative gravy train to hop on if you ask me.

[BrianC]

Luke, you are correct about the knowledge of WNS. That is why I have made the statement that we cannot control or stop it. Many people realize when giving up on something when no positive outcome can be realized is prudent. I am not saying that the study should stop, because there are folks that want to know more about the syndrome, but asking for the general public to continue spending on this is just simply not right in my opinion. Yea, I know! I will continue some donations for the good of the cavers whom I appreciate for their concern over the bats. It is what it is!

You might ask, Would I feel any different had caves not been closed?, well lets just say my feathers would be laying down nicely.

[climbingallday]

Now, if you can provide any evidence that I am wrong, I will certainly look at that, but be prepared!

Brian[/quote]

Brian, I certainly respect your right to hold that opinion. There are programs which waste money, and at times I even partially agree with you. The outlook on fighting WNS looks bleak at this point based on what we now "know".

The basic evidence that you might be wrong is that we don't understand how WNS kills bats, if the fungus is the exclusive cause, or really much else. How is the fungus in Oklahoma, but the syndrome is lagging way back in TN so far? We just don't have enough info to know that we can't (or shouldn't) do anything yet. I won't say that every research dollar spent by the government is used wisely. Not every "discovery" is useful or accurate. I will advocate that many of the most useful discoveries mankind has made came through researching silly things in nature. Think how we would have judged Louis Pasteur studying mold and little invisible "bugs" that could kill people. Back then all of Europe knew that disease was caused by evil spirits and the will of God. And just how could the super safe DDT we spray on our own food be killing Eagles? Who would have thought that researching vampire bat saliva would lead to the best stroke treatment ever discovered as recently as a few years ago? Lots of studies seemed silly before folks did them.

I don't have faith in our absolute understanding of the Universe to say confidently that bats are hopelessly destined to die. I am glad our government is shelling out some dollars to research this. Even if we don't find a way to stop WNS, there are many frightening fungal outbreaks right now, such as Colony Collapse in bees, and the fungus wiping out amphibians. Who knows if some super deadly fungus will afflict humans next. Just maybe, something we learn from WNS will help us tackle other problems down the road. We owe a great many technologies to ridiculous and expensive dreams followed at Government expense. I am thankful for the visionaries and dreamers who help redefine our world one small discovery at a time.

Neil