Indiana DNR Confirms Geomyces destructans

[caveflower]

No problem Peter. It has been a while since I have been on cavechat. I just had to post this. Even though I talked the poor elderly cave owner widow into not bulldozing her cave shut. She would like some peace of mind that nothing will happen to her. I wonder how many others might think the same way. I don’t have an easy answer for them.

Thank you Peter for helping with the fight. This has restored my faith that the NSS is working for the regular caver. I’m no scientist or biologist I’m a caver who cleans up caves goes caving and teaches young folks about caves. I dropped out of the NSS last year because I felt it was not for just the regular caver like my family and I are. This might have just changed my mind.

[PYoungbaer]

Pippin,

Feel free to circulate- it's a public document.

[wyandottecaver]

Brenda,

*EDIT* this relevant to Indiana. Your State laws and affected ESA Species may vary.

I'll follow up with a more specific email to you but figured I'd post for the group as well.

I will offer the disclaimer that I am neither a lawyer or spokesperson or employee of the State. However, I did my MS Thesis on the Endangered Species Act and have worked for the DNR as a caves specialist. Without going into a long treatise on bat/cave law here are some salient points.

If there aren't ESA listed bats in the cave, the landowner can essentially do anything they want short of directly killing bats (and other non-game) and actually even that is ok if they think there is a imminent health risk. If there aren't ANY bats in the cave, they can blow it up, run a 1000 cavers a day through it, or paint it pink. doesn't matter as long as they OWN it. Period.

If there ARE ESA listed species (Indiana and Gray bats are the most likely here) then:
The Endangered Species Act (ESA) applies almost entirely to government agencies or those who accept government money. Private Individuals are impacted in 2 ways.

1) You cannot hurt,harm, kill, harass, etc a individual endangered animal. The definitions are fairly broad, but in general the USFWS has to show how you did some specific action to impact an actual real animal....not just a theoretical one.

Thus, while they might talk about the harm that caving might do to bats due to WNS; legally, they would have to show how A person, did A thing, that resulted in A impacted animal. Nobody wants to fight a lawsuit, but short of finding G.D. in your hair, the odds of them winning that one with WNS is pretty slim. (This is why CBD wants to change the law)

2) The broadest impact, and the one most folks hear about is "Critical Habitat". For some animals this can be thousands of acres of forest or a private beach. For bats in Indiana it is a very very small and very specific list of caves and those people already know who they are.

For our purposes, beyond directly harming Indiana or Gray bats or impacting their critical habitat (which consists of a VERY short list of caves), the ESA simply doesn't apply to private citizens or landowners and the State cant say much about what you do to or in your own cave as long as you aren't clubbing bats in the street.

None of this will stop them from appealing to your sense of decency and being a generally upright citizen to take voluntary actions that are mostly based on lies...errr bad science....errrr politics.....errr "an abundance of caution".

[caveflower]

Thanks Tod! I have copy this so I can bring it with me on my trips to these owners. This helps a lot.

[PYoungbaer]

Indiana now has confirmed Washington County for WNS, not just G.d., through histopathology.

click on image to enlarge

[BrianC]

Kentucky must not be in the looking mode yet. They must be waiting on warmer weather. Sure doesn't look good for them though!

[wyandottecaver]

Actually KY *is* looking. I don't have comprehensive data, but I know several sites in Breckenridge Co. were checked specifically due to the IN report. Nothing was found visually on those trips, but everyone has accepted it's just a matter of time now.

[wyandottecaver]

I also made a surface-only visit to another site in another county in IN on friday the 4th. Air temps were about 25 deg and there were several bats outside, and we observed 1 flying. Several carcasses have already been found. Looks like IN may get hit hard it's very first year.

[David Grimes]

I have witnessed flying bats while going into Corydon in the last couple weeks. I have noticed them at least 3 different times so it doesn't look good.

[caveflower]

I've been in quite a few caves with a small amount of bats and all seem really healthy and fat. Sleeping nicely. One cave that usually has a few bats had maybe 1-2000 bats which was unusal. They all seemed heathy and happy. We visit at lease 3 caves a month during the winter and have only seen one dead bat.

[Pippin]

I noticed that North Carolina's press release today mentioned the caving moratorium. Evidently FWS still wants everyone to stay out of all caves in any WNS/adjoining state. I hope Jeremy Coleman actually read Peter's letter and takes his advice.

[wyandottecaver]

I'm sure he read it. I'm equally sure that the USFWS, like the titanic, will not change course...icebergs and logic not withstanding.

[caveflower]

[Pippin]

Peter, did you ever get a response from Jeremy or anyone in his office?

[PYoungbaer]

I got an acknowledgment from him that he received it and would get back. Nothing since.