Pics of 3:1 haul line setups?

[Chads93GT]

This weekend I was trying to dig out a new cave with some friends and we were in a ditch with several trees. Not wanting to haul bucket after bucket full of rocks and mud out of the hole, i used my pmi ez bend to rig a high line over the pit. I did a double figure 8, self equalizing, and anchored it to 2 trees with the figure 8 just close to the hole. I then ran the long tail across to another tree after I learned that i couldnt use this with the pullys as it would rake the bucket up the dirt/rock on the side of the hole and it wouldnt bring the bucket up to the surface to dump it. I then ran the long tail across to another tree, used a prusic and 6mm cord to fasten an ascender to the line, ran the tail through another biner/pully on a sling around the tree, then of course ran the tail through the ascender. I was then able to pull all of the slack out of the rope as best I could, which now kept the pully rig elevated above the pit which made hauling up the 20-30 pound buckets of earth really easy.

I had the hand line running to a pully at the 8, then down to a pully on the bucket, then back up to the main line where it was anchored. Basically a 3:1..............but not a true 3:1 right? see the pic, as I wasnt pulling down on the top pully, but more to the side. It worked though, it saved our backs a lot of pain and worked great.

Say someone is down in a pit in this kind of situation, how do you rig the thing to safely haul out 3-400 pounds? any tips on what to do better?

pics in a sec

[Chads93GT]

Yeah, it was a little muddy ;)

[Anonymous_Coward]

Chad,

I'm sorry I don't completely understand your setup. We might need a diagram to really get it.

In the meantime, there is a diagram of a standard 3:1 with progress capture on page 13 of this:

http://www.caves.org/ncrc/national/Stud ... proved.pdf

[Chads93GT]

My main question, is did I tie the high line right? is that safe for heavy weight pulling? afterall, diagrams only show how something should work. Hauling hurt people out of holes is seldomly less than ideal, right? Literally all you have to know is in the picture, the high line is parallel with the ground. thats what I am wondering, is it safe? is that how its done? is it how you would have done it? AFterall, diagrams show weights being pulled straight up to anchors directly over the top of the hole. Kind of hard to rig something directly like that w/o having the line right up over the top of the hole. does that make sense?

[Chads93GT]

my super art ability




just wondering if there was anything else i can do. just look at this and the pics above and it will make sense. trees were pretty far apart. 15-30' from the hole.
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I noticed i had the wrong photo uploaded first. no wonder it didnt make sense. Look again at the first photo. sorry

[knudeNoggin]

The pulley system is clearly a re-directed 2:1, not a 3:1.

This example shows the advantage of being skilled with rigging:
"I'll handle the tuff technical rigging stuff up here where it's dry,
you guyz go down and have fun in the mud."

[Chads93GT]

anything I could have done differently to utilize a 3:1? In this case I had to get in the hole too, lol. is it wrong to rig the rope the way i did? anything dangerous?

[gillip]

In the photo, the red pully at the top is only acting as a redirect and has no mechanical advantage in the system. To achieve a 3:1 pull, you could rig a 3:1 complex as shown in the link posted by jaa45993, or you could have used a couple more pulleys. To rig a 3:1 simple, you would tie the rope to the load, run it through a pulley at the anchor, run it through another pulley at the load, and then through a redirect pulley. Simple haul systems take a lot of pulleys, complex sytems may require some tending.

Looks like a fun dig!

[chh]

As has already been mentioned you only had a 2:1. And I don't know that I would have bothered with this for just 5 gallon buckets of dirt or rocks. A 2:1 is nice but you're pulling twice as much rope. I guess it kinda depends on how fast the buckets are coming out etc. A couple of thoughts. The way you did it was ok, nothing wrong with that as far as pulling buckets of dirt or rocks out. However if, as the picture suggests, you are gonna have 2 guys on the surface, there's other ways to do it. Especially if one guys is going to be stooped over the drop removing heavy buckets. On a dig, think with your BACK. Imagine if the hole or drop were bigger, then what? What I would have done (again with 2 guys on the surface) Forgo the double figure eight and just put a line up there. Hang a pulley from it. Run the haul line through the pulley. Run another line from the carabiner on the pulley to a tree or device on the right side (bunny ears side) The guy in the pit calls ready. One surface guy pulls while the other surface guy holds the pulley still. When the bucket reaches the pulley the guy holding it still allows it to travel along the line towards the guy doing the hauling. No one bending down over the hole and the dirt moves a little further away from the hole before you have to take it off the line decreasing the chances of droping it on your compadre's head. This setup will also work for bigger/deeper holes where you wouldn't want to be stooping over it. You can haul a bunch of weight out of a hole by expanding on this principal provided there are appropriate anchors available. Also, if the 2 surface guys can take turns every haul to lessen the work. And if that haul line gets slimy, slap some ascenders on it!

Happy digging!

[Chads93GT]

So there isn't a problem with streaching the line between trees like that and using it to pull up the weight? That was my main concern. The reason I had to use the double 8 was there was no straight line between 2 trees over the hole so I basically did the 8 to deviate the line so it would be over the hole for easier hauling up.

Letting the haul pully slide across the high line to dump it further away sounds brilliant. That is wha tyou mean right? AS I had them anchored to the rope so they wouldn't move, you woul dhave it so it would slide over to the hauler, if allowed to slide, via the 2nd guy letting it slide over with a 2nd rope. Thats pretty rad man. I can see how that would work on bigger sinks. This was a really small hole.

[chh]

So there isn't a problem with streaching the line between trees like that and using it to pull up the weight? That was my main concern. The reason I had to use the double 8 was there was no straight line between 2 trees over the hole so I basically did the 8 to deviate the line so it would be over the hole for easier hauling up.

Letting the haul pully slide across the high line to dump it further away sounds brilliant. That is wha tyou mean right? AS I had them anchored to the rope so they wouldn't move, you woul dhave it so it would slide over to the hauler, if allowed to slide, via the 2nd guy letting it slide over with a 2nd rope. Thats pretty rad man. I can see how that would work on bigger sinks. This was a really small hole.

Yeah man, sliding the load across a line was what I was getting at. As a variation on a theme you can also tie an end of a second rope to each of the trees the bunny ears go to and run a prussik out to the point where you want your line to run. Then attach the line over the pit to the prussik. Much like the redirect in the other thread you posted. Again easier to adjust. Suitable for buckets of dirt, but I wouldn't use it for people.
As another variation, again with 2 surface people, you could run a line over the hole. Clip a couple of biners (with or without pulleys) to the line. Stretch your haul line across the hole as well and clip into the two biners or pulleys. In between these 2 biners hang the biner with the pulley and the bucket. Now you have a 2:1 but with your haul line stretching out to either side of the pit so BOTH of your surface guys can pull at the same time. They can also take turns dealing with the bucket because one pulls the bucket over to him while the other just keeps enough tension on his line to keep the bucket from dropping back down in the hole. There has to be a little sag in the traverse line and some weight in the bucket to make this work well I think. Or you could use a rigging plate or lacking that just clip the two biners on the traverse line together with a locker that way they wouldn't want to migrate towards the haulers. I've only tried this method in my head so your results may vary
Probably overkill for a small dig, but you gotta keep hope alive...right?

[Chads93GT]

good points. maybe next time I will try that. I only have 2 rescue pullys, a 30kn and a 20kn, both are like 2" pullys. or whatever they are. I also have a couple of those "pulley's" you clip into a biner. basically turns a biner into a pully, but they dont work that great for too many applications.Thanks for the tips.

[Ernie Coffman]

Went to see if I could fine a picture and ZOOM, my message just disappeared. Don't know why we can't bring up another url or message without it doing that.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, Chad. You've been given several suggestions on using a system, but I see a safety problem after awhile, so will suggest getting some 2x4s and a hunk of 2" pipe. With these items you can put together a real neat and safe winch, which I'll send you a picture of. One or two guys can reel in the buckets and it makes for a much safer tool. We used the other system a lot, but once we made the winch, we hauled a heck of a lot more stuff out of our hole. And, naturally, if you're only going to be digging for a short time, this wouldn't be worth the effort, but I would think, since you haven't mentioned time, that this is going to be for awhile. If not, then just be careful digging and a safety line around that person might be in mode.