Someone cutting your rigging

[YuccaPatrol]

Thanks for giving me something to worry about that I never consider before!

[Stridergdm]

Thanks for giving me something to worry about that I never consider before!

No problem. We're glad to help.

[ArCaver]

A few years ago my wife and I walked into a cave with a 40' drop at the back of the entrance room. As we walked in we could hear a car taking off from the parking area and someone at the bottom of the drop was yelling to leave the rope alone. As he ascended over the lip we recognized him and he recognized us. It turns out that just a few minutes before we walked in someone had been tugging on the rope like they were trying to untie it. I always wondered if the sound of our Jeep in the parking area scared them off.

[knudeNoggin]

Do you ever worry someone would untie or cut your rigging while you're at the bottom of a hole or (god forbid) on rope?
... But someone malicious with a blade freaks me out.
Personally, I live in an apartment so I practice hanging off a nearby bridge.
...
Mainly though, I'm curious how (ir)rational my fears are.

Probably statistics won't be much comfort if you're an exception that proves
the rule. Given the bridge, shouldn't you be able to perhaps rig a back-up
(redundant) anchor -- which, at the very least, might buy some time in being
unlikely to be simultaneously cut? -- maybe something in 7mm cord that you
start your hanging with and then tie to your main line with a friction hitch
(and putting tension into, so you'd feel it were IT cut) !?

As you worry, just one case of maliciousness, thinking the vandalism fun(ny) or whatever.

There is an infamous case of John Sherman in rockclimbing circles: it features
the failure of a Dyneema sling rigging half of the anchor for low-elongation rope
used by Sherman while he as cleaning a route. It gained wide circulation and then
echoes as evidence of a (false) belief many held about vulnerabilities of HMPE;
but after Mammut's (sling maker) analysis that the rope was cut by something
sharp, all visible interest vanished -- apparently, either a wasteful hoax of some
bit of joking vandalism (or worse) was not of general concern. That uninterested
state is where it seems the case will lie, forever (well, besides the near inevitable
dredging up the rumor as evidence yet again). In this case, the sling was cut JUST
at the exit of material from a Cow (Girth) hitch of tape-2-tape (in which the hitch
held the form it would have around a rigid object, not folded back like a Square knot);
whether this was done while Sherman was on the line or sometime prior is hard to
know (he remarked that his dog was up there; but ... -- friend of dog's?). It would've
had to have been cut very carefully to be what it was: about a 98-9% clean cut, just
a yarn or so to hold, a while.

*kN*

[hunter]

Couple of thoughts:

-Can and has happened but it is rare to have a rope yanked or cut while in cave and exceedingly rare when someone is on rope. I worry far more about the sneaky piece of chert that is nibbling away at my rope on the rub spot that didn't look that bad on they way down.

-I cave in Mexico a reasonable amount and have never had this issue although we usually have a surface team and the rope is always tied at the bottom or a rebelay. We are also on good terms with the locals which can be really key to not having your stuff messed with.

-ALWAYS have a backup person who will come looking for you if your rope is messed with.

-If ignorance is an issue you could always leave a note pointing out that someone's life is depending on this rope. I've never done this with rope but I have found water stashes with such a note.

James

[creektrails]

I am new to this community and therefore didnt understand most of your post but it seems like someone rock climbing had his rigging cut. You mentioned a dog at the top. I have a 1/2 husky 1/2 shepherd that when he chews he actually cuts webbing like a knife. I could take pics as proof. He cuts shoe strings and the webbing on my Merrells that holds the shoe string. He cut webbing on my camp chair, it looked like someone had taken scissors to it. He even severed the webbing on my jack russells electric collar, once again it looked like a knife cut it. needless to say he would never go caving w/ me nor do I leave my equip. within his reach. It makes me wonder if this poor wretch had such a mongrel.
Nate

Do you ever worry someone would untie or cut your rigging while you're at the bottom of a hole or (god forbid) on rope?
... But someone malicious with a blade freaks me out.
Personally, I live in an apartment so I practice hanging off a nearby bridge.
...
Mainly though, I'm curious how (ir)rational my fears are.

Probably statistics won't be much comfort if you're an exception that proves
the rule. Given the bridge, shouldn't you be able to perhaps rig a back-up
(redundant) anchor -- which, at the very least, might buy some time in being
unlikely to be simultaneously cut? -- maybe something in 7mm cord that you
start your hanging with and then tie to your main line with a friction hitch
(and putting tension into, so you'd feel it were IT cut) !?

As you worry, just one case of maliciousness, thinking the vandalism fun(ny) or whatever.

There is an infamous case of John Sherman in rockclimbing circles: it features
the failure of a Dyneema sling rigging half of the anchor for low-elongation rope
used by Sherman while he as cleaning a route. It gained wide circulation and then
echoes as evidence of a (false) belief many held about vulnerabilities of HMPE;
but after Mammut's (sling maker) analysis that the rope was cut by something
sharp, all visible interest vanished -- apparently, either a wasteful hoax of some
bit of joking vandalism (or worse) was not of general concern. That uninterested
state is where it seems the case will lie, forever (well, besides the near inevitable
dredging up the rumor as evidence yet again). In this case, the sling was cut JUST
at the exit of material from a Cow (Girth) hitch of tape-2-tape (in which the hitch
held the form it would have around a rigid object, not folded back like a Square knot);
whether this was done while Sherman was on the line or sometime prior is hard to
know (he remarked that his dog was up there; but ... -- friend of dog's?). It would've
had to have been cut very carefully to be what it was: about a 98-9% clean cut, just
a yarn or so to hold, a while.

*kN*

[Rick Brinkman]

I've only been concerned once(since 1995)....and I still dropped in anyway. Obviously, I got back out.

Personally....I worry MORE about cave closures....nationally.

[OpenTrackRacer]

We've thought about this when exploring mines. We're typically out in the middle of nowhere or near an off-road vehicle recreation area. We often tie off to the truck and it always crosses my mind that some yahoo might come by and cut or pull up the rope. We rarely leave someone on the surface but if anything ever does happen to the rope someone will come looking for us in a day or so if we don't check in with our SPOT.

[davantalus]

... Obviously, I got back out.

You bring up a good point Rick. Would anyone on their Blackberry, currently stuck in a hole, care to counterpoint?

[ian mckenzie]

Our club has a bunch of little laminated cards for clipping into the rope at surface pitch heads, advising that there were people currently in the cave and that touching the rigging would put them at risk. Also asking others not to use the rope, as we ourselves might remove it at any time. Plus a website address for further info.

We tend not to use the cards anymore as most of our work is in remote areas without people around.

[underdog]

We had in incident in Mexico where a cow was licking/chewing at the rope. Bad cow! Top side team members spent considerable energy dissuading the cow. I think it is a good idea to have someone topside in many circumstances.

At the "behemoth" gate in Montana I always worried about the metal trap door slamming shut, and would tie it open also. Still, if someone really wanted to cut the rope at that cave, it would be as simple as a stick to pull it through the gat bars.

[graveleye]

I've heard legend about people getting ready to climb out of Rusty's cave and seeing their rope being pulled up, and grabbing it just in time. When they got up, no one was there.

I think if it would be me, I would probably snatch it so hard I would pull them down in the cave.

[Patrick Wilson]

I've heard legend about people getting ready to climb out of Rusty's cave and seeing their rope being pulled up, and grabbing it just in time. When they got up, no one was there.

Great now I can't go to Rusty's anymore.

[Ron Fulcher]

30 years ago I was working on a barn roof and had a ladder attached to a rope on the opposite side of the barn and tied off to a light pole in a hog lot. Even though there was a small fence around the pole and several knots holding it in place. I had to come back down for another can of paint as it turns out just in time. There were three hogs working together standing on each others backs to reach the rope and had me down to one knot! Believe it or not... I would not have believed it either but it happened. Animals natural curiosity can work against our modern methods and there are a lot of wild hogs in the east and south.

Ron Fulcher
NSS44706RL

[slapout]

well i know i am the exception to the rule but i carry rock climbing gear along with frist aid with me i know not many people have the equipment to get out of rustys but i do practice geting out of cemetary pit .tho i understand that makes sum cavers mad i do no drilling or damage to the cave but i was told just touching dose damage none of this helps if your on the rope and someone cuts it but it was just a thought