The best rope? ;-)

[Anonymous_Coward]

Back to the original question: Which rope is best?


Friends don't let friends buy anything but PMI.

[NZcaver]

Back to the original question: Which rope is best?


Friends don't let friends buy anything but PMI.

Yes and no. Friends don't fool friends into believing there is only one choice of rope they should use - that wouldn't really be a "choice" now would it?

For most drops, I actually prefer my flexible Bluewater to my stiff PMI rope. Granted it's a little more bouncy, but it handles nicer. I realize most manufacturers make more than one type of rope, but that's my general impression with those ones. I can see where having stiff/ultra static rope on really big drops would pay off, but most of the time I prefer a more flexible rope - as long as it has good abrasion resistance to handle some of my lazy IRT rigging.

I also like two other ropes not mentioned in the original post - Beal and Sterling. Both are generally more flexible and a little less static than the classic PMI, but are damn good ropes in my opinion.

[lostgravity]

I also like two other ropes not mentioned in the original post - Beal and Sterling. Both are generally more flexible and a little less static than the classic PMI, but are damn good ropes in my opinion.

Yes. I thought about editing the original post eventually to list the additional ropes and things that have been mentioned during the discussion - would probably be nice to have as a summary.

Sterling was mentioned earlier. I had never heard of Beal though - it looks like their <a href="http://www.bealplanet.com/anglais/index.html">website</a> contains some nicely prepared information on rope dynamics (under "What it's necessary to"). I have only skimmed through it so far, though. And they provide more information on the properties of their ropes than some other manufacturers when following the funny links on http://www.bealplanet.com/ - I like that.

Cheers,
David

[caverd]

Bottom line, rope choice is a personal choice. Different ropes are different because each manufactuer believes there are advantages to their designs. I've tried several in my time. I love Highline rope because it is on the stiff side. I'm a big guy (265 lbs.) and the stiffness in Highline suits me well. PMI is my second choice and a very good rope. Blue Water is just too bouncy for my size (and anyone that has climbed with me can tell you I climb very smoothly with my rope walker). Good luck and cave safe!

[Anonymous_Coward]

Oh well, once again I tried to make a joke on this forum. Once again it was misunderstood. I guess you can't get a joke across unless you use a smilie. (first time smilie user, hope I did it right) Vertical work is serious business, but we should still be able to laugh about it.

The 'friends don't let friends" comment is something I've heard certain western cavers say and was meant as a joke.

But, I do agree with the intent of the joke and have to say that I haven't been completely satisfied with any of the non-PMI ropes I have bought. Blue Water is OK, but tends to flatten out when loaded; not real good in the peace of mind department. I've also seen a new Blue Water sustain considerable sheath damage after one bad pop off of a knob. Used a Sterling rope on a 280' pit and didn't much care for it. It was REAL stretchy and bounced a lot.

You can't plan for every situation and I think that the durability of PMI rope gives more of a safety margin than softer, more flexible ropes. It just "feels" safer.

[NZcaver]

Oh well, once again I tried to make a joke on this forum. Once again it was misunderstood...The 'friends don't let friends" comment is something I've heard certain western cavers say and was meant as a joke...

Once again? But that was your first post on this forum, wasn't it?

Actually, I had assumed you made that remark as a combination of joke/sarcasm and honest comment. What I call "stirring the pot".

I intended my response to be in the same "tone" as your post, so I apologize if my sarcasm was a little too subtle to be picked up. But you never know - a casual reader may take those comments literally. PMI is fine rope, and you explained some very valid reasons for liking it. Just remember that rope stretch is not quite as critical to every vertical caver, especially on the shorter drops that many of us do. When you regularly do those 280 foot + drops, sure.

I've also experienced a very minor amount of the "flattening" you described, but I have to say it's never really affected my piece of mind. Mostly it was temporary, and didn't seem to change the handling of the rope all that much. In one case, an individual was enjoying very fast rappels on my rope using a rack descender. The rope did suffer a slight but permanent shape-change that time, but still continued to do it's job. In my experience, bobbins seem to be a little less likely to flatten the rope than racks - unless you rappel with the autostop brake partly engaged.

And yes, durability does give your rope an improved safety margin. But a more flexible rope isn't always a less durable rope. Plus if someone could take a fall on your rope (which shouldn't normally happen in SRT caving anyway), you'll probably want to use one with a little stretch in it to improve the impact-force safety margin.

By the way, I know you weren't really "kidding" when you made that original comment - but here's a neat smiley you should know about (I asked Wayne to make it especially)...

[RescueMan]

I've also experienced a very minor amount of the "flattening" you described, but I have to say it's never really affected my piece of mind.

You must mean "peace of mind". Usually "piece of " refers to a different part of the anatomy.

- Robert

[Stridergdm]

I've also experienced a very minor amount of the "flattening" you described, but I have to say it's never really affected my piece of mind.

You must mean "peace of mind". Usually "piece of " refers to a different part of the anatomy.

- Robert

Oh come on Robert, we both know NZCaver. Piece of mind probably is accurate.

[NZcaver]

You must mean "peace of mind". Usually "piece of " refers to a different part of the anatomy

Oh come on Robert, we both know NZCaver. Piece of mind probably is accurate.

HA!
Good ones guys! Thanks for the spelling/grammar check. It's refreshing to know I'm not perfect all the time.
But next time I see you guys, all y'all will be getting a piece of my mind - I tell ya!!

[Anonymous_Coward]

Once again? But that was your first post on this forum, wasn't it?

Well, I guess it was my first post on "this" forum, but I used to make lots of posts on previous versions of the NSS Discussion board. I gave it a rest for about a year and just re-registered in order to stir the pot. For a while it was starting to seem more like the NSS argument board so I took a break. I had been resistant to using smilies, but they are better than being misunderstood. So now I'm back in cybercavespace, so be prepared for more sarcasm and puns (but now with the help of smilie people).

So, don't worry NZcaver, I know you're a nice guy. I once ate pizza with you and the Keelers in Safford, AZ.

[ian mckenzie]

...Sterling. Both are generally more flexible and a little less static than the classic PMI, but are damn good ropes in my opinion.

My one and only experience with Sterling was not a good one. We had some 9mm blue stuff donated to an expedition, and it had terrible abrasion resistance. We queried Sterling about it and they admitted that it wasn't their best rope (the worst type to donate to an expedition, one would think). So perhaps Sterling makes other ropes that are 'damn good', but the stuff we used was crap.

[cob]

But next time I see you guys, all y'all will be getting a piece of my mind - I tell ya!!

Careful NZ... give away too many pieces of your mind and you won't have much left for yourself!

[NZcaver]

So, don't worry NZcaver, I know you're a nice guy. I once ate pizza with you and the Keelers in Safford, AZ.

Ha! Small world. Not a bad bite of pizza, as I recall.
[edit] Actually now that I think about it, didn't they make really greasy pizza that we had to wait a loooooong time for?

[NZcaver]

My one and only experience with Sterling was not a good one...

Good to know. My personal piece of Sterling is 11mm black stuff, brand new and still in storage back in NZ. (Shelf life? What shelf life?)

However I've used 11mm Sterling on cliffs and in caves and mines - rope cut from the same factory roll as my piece. (Why use your own when you can pressure your friends into using theirs?) The abrasion resistance seemed to be fine, but of course we padded any major rub points. Nice handling, too.
I will avoid their 9mm stuff.

[NZcaver]

Careful NZ... give away too many pieces of your mind and you won't have much left for yourself!

Damn - too late!!!