The best rope? ;-)

[caverdoc]

I had a piece of 11mm black Sterling static. Donated it to Joe Oliphant for some work in Silvertip karst a few years back. They had it rigged in Moonray, I believe, where it became known as "the f---ing black bi--h" rope. Pretty bouncy, Joe still gives me crap about it.

Just finished cleaning my ropes from a Carroll Cave trip. Used a Mammut 11mm static to rig the entrance next to a survey crew's Bluewater. Most folks preferred the Mammut, since it didn't flatten on rappel and had very little bounce. It still handles very well, nice and supple, and I usually keep it in a bag pre-rigged for the entrance anchor system.

Doc Kennedy

[stashyboy]

I have to respond to that last one about Sterling. I have been using Sterling HTP static for the last 6 years and want to set the record straight. I have tried several types of their static and the HTP-which is polyester is the best I've used and yes there are certain rigging restrictions. I have distributed several pieces(I get prime remainders from the factory) to folks with this caveat. 'Don't rig it like american rope!' Yes the soft supple sheath is less abrasion resistant than those 'cable' ropes-you know what I mean. The ones that the owner has never washed and asks you to carry and coil! .The Sterling polyester (mostly 10mm) has *very*little bounce less than 2% it climbs like cable with virtually zero bounce on lengths of <30 meters. The 10 mm diameter feeds doesn't stick in ascenders, but the soft hand requires practice to feed easily. Another benefit is carrying in your cave pack is a breeze if you have in-cave drops far from the entrance through torturous passage. Again european rigging with NO rub points is important. As for the black rope mentioned, I can't say, I've never seen it, it must have been an earlier prototype that obviously didn't succeed. They do make a nylon static line that is OK, made for certain uses, but I prefer the polyester for cave use. The search and rescue manager at Sterling, recently told me they were going to try HTP in 9mm. I haven't seen it yet, but if it lives up to the low bounce of its bigger brother, it could be a great push rope. Stay tuned.

[caverdoc]

Stashy
Thanks for the information. The infamous Silvertip rope (still in a cache in MT) is a Nylon 11mm. It was quite bouncy, but I still liked it personally...
I'm intrigued about the Sterling polyester 9mm, since I have some Cancord poly that is absolutely primo! More of my ropes of late are poly.
Your comments about washing Sterling ropes are well put. When I was in Silvertip, I washed a few of the ropes from the cache and restored some of their suppleness (including the evil black one). Granted, the cache also has Goldline in it, no thought of redemption there...
Dr K

[stashyboy]

Cool, a few years back....ok, that was 9 years ago!...I was on a Mexico trip with Joe Ivy(rest his soul) and we used a lot of Cancord Gonzo was a distributer at the time. Not sure if Becky still handles the stuff, but it was before Sterling introduced their version of polyester 10mm. That stuff was a bit more stiff and maybe a little slippery if I recall. I also remember many very bouncy short climbs in Cuevo Charco on 9mm nylon, that convinced me never to buy any of that!

[caverdoc]

My Cancord came from Becky. She also sold me about 450' of the 8mm poly, I donated 300' to Joe for Green Fork Falls/Kathy's Icebox rigging and kept a 150' piece for push rope.
I remember talking with Joe on the phone the Thursday night before he went on that fateful trip in O-9 well. He mentioned the 'removable bolts'and I said I didn't have experience with them. It was quite a shock to discover on Monday he died.
Joe and Becky really made me some great gear. I'm built like Joe and use a 7mm maillon to shift my Croll above my seat maillon, which he first mentioned to me. Still have a lot of Gonzo stuff, especially packs.
Dr J

[van]

Looks like Scott McCrea is the only other person here who knows about Highline rope. Huh?

Nice rope, indistinguishable in from PMI Max/Pit for performance/stretch/wear, a bit cheaper. Canadian company, owned by a guy named Danger (really!). Not easy to find; the only Highline I've ever seen here in the Northwest is my own that I bought in KY.

Scott - anyone - is Highline is still in business?

Speaking of Northwest: PMI Max/Pit seems to be the standard in these parts. But PMI EZ and BW II are also common, because the drops aren't long enough for bounce to be much of a factor, and they're easier to stuff and haul through tight places. And that's what they sell at REI, and we don't have cave vendors. :-(

Van

[Scott McCrea]

Hi Van! Long time, no hear. Glad your back.

Highline is stilll being made. Danger comes to most TAG Fall Cave-ins. I know that One Life Outfitters sells it. Not sure who else does these days.

Highline rope is usually a little less expensive than PMI. It's tough stuff, but also very stiff. The stiffness has cause some people problems. YMMV.

[Tim White]

I'm not to impressed with the quality control of Highline.

[hank moon]

I'm not to impressed with the quality control of Highline.

Ditto.

[caverd]

I'm not to impressed with the quality control of Highline.

Sorry for jumping back into this so long after your statement. Can you explain your concerns regarding the quality control of Highline? What details/facts do you have about the manufacturing process utilized for Highline vs others? Simply stating that one is not impressed with the quality control of a product doesn't tell us much.

Thanks!

Doug

[Tim White]

I have had the opportunity to use HighLine rope at Bridge Day, in Ellison’s Fantastic Pit as well as a number of other times. My experience has been that the rappel was very inconsistent. (Not due my technique, but the structure of the rope.)




Just for information, the following can be found on the rope manufactures web sites or in their catalogs.

Any manufacture of rope that is to be used for a life safety line should be committed to a superior level of quality in their product. PMI, BlueWater, Sterling, Petzl, Cancord (and major brands) have in place a quality control system certified to ISO 9001 Standards. They also have “third partyâ€

[caverd]

I agree that third party certification of a rope to meet the appropriate standards set forth by the Cordage Institute may be of value. Applicable test equipment and associated testing at some periodic interval is also valuable. Do we know that Highline does not meet any of these criteria?

ISO 9001 quality system registration does not guarantee quality product. ISO 9001 is simply a generic, base-line quality system standard applicable to all industries. It set's forth expectations that a company has in place documented systems and procedures to guide the entire order fulfillment process, from product design to product delivery and any subsequent customer comlaints. Being ISO 9001 registered is generally a good thing, but a quality system that fulfills the requirements set forth in the standard (and not registered) can be just as acceptable. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in product quality based on ISO 9001. I have 17 years experience in registering organizations to ISO 9001 and I know all too well the pitfalls assocated with it.

I have friends who have had similar experiences with Highline as you described. I know just as many, though, that have had these same experiences with PMI. The most inconsistent rope I've ever been on is Bluewater. I've used Highline in pits from 40' to 1100' and not had any problems. I've never had any problems with PMI either. Is it possible that caver weight may make manufacturing differences (not deficiencies) in ropes more noticable?

Sorry for the rambling.......