Cavechat.org

You're the last one up the rope. At about 20 feet into the climb, you realize that you forgot/dropped your ___________. (insert important cave gear here) You have to go back down to get it.

What do you do? Downclimb or changover to rappel?


The reason I ask, is because I think I can downclimb 20 feet faster than I could do a changeover and then rappel.

At what height WOULD you consider a changeover the only realistic option? 15 feet, 30 feet, or ???


Just curious about a "what if" situation.......

20 feet? Depends on what climbing system I was using. Texas, I would down climb. Ropewalker, I would changeover.

My changeover threshold would be, Texas: ~30'; Ropewalker: ~10'

Well, actually, ropewalker would be more, because I could just disconnect the foot and chest turning it into a Texas.

Oops...forgot to mention that I use the Frog system.

The mast on my sailboat is about 30' above the deck and I routinely go up and down using just a Texas system. One time I did a changeover and it took way too long. I don't always go the top, of course, but I could.

I climb with a frog system, and usually rappel with a Stop descender. I would downclimb maybe a couple of body-lengths at most. Not because it's hard to downclimb (it isn't), but because it's so damn easy to do a changeover. Especially with a Stop. I haven't actually timed myself (and it's not a race), but I'm guessing it takes me about 20 seconds to change from climb to rappel. And I'm not particularly fast on rope.

Changeover. Way faster and easier than downclimbing 20 feet. I think my threshold would be about 8 feet. But, I'm lazy.

20' up, I would do a changeover.
I practice them all the time, so they are very quick for me to do.
(I would also cuss a bit too)

Definitely a change over (I use frog). Just to beat a deadhorse... ... they're way too easy to do (and if they're not - you need to practice them more - oops, did I say that out loud)?

Changeover, I think down climbing would use up more energy and time.

I'd yell to the person behind me, "make sure you pick up my gear".

Ok seriously, 20' is probably about the point where i"d have to give a little thought. 5-10' below that, certainly downclimb for sure. 5-10' about that, change over for sure. Guess it would depend on the condition of the, how free-hanging the drop is, etc.

I use a Mitchell system and can downclimb as fast as I climb. 20' would take a just few seconds. No question - I'd downclimb, and have done just that on a couple of occassions when needed.

Post deleted.

changeover/frog system.

I practice them constantly because of my practice rig. Most times when I climb up, I have no choice but to changeover and slide back down unless we're doing the treadmill thing. Got it down to about a minute now if I'm really working it. For some reason downclimbing is tedious to me.

Descending is more fun with a descender anyway.

This is a good one!!! Depends on a couple of things for me. I use a rope walker for one and can convert it into a modified Texas system to down climb. First off it depends on the pitch am i on a wall of free hanging! On a wall I am more prone to do a change over. just easyer than fighting staying orientated on the wall to down climb!!! free hang, down climb is easyer IMO. I throw fatigue in here too. On one trip we had a rope riged really bad puttin the climber into a really tight V-shaped crack. Even for someone more vertically inclined than I, it was extreemly challengeing for them to clear the crack and lip. I got pretty weged in trying to clear it and had to fight to get my QAS back down from getting it jamed. The pitch was around 20 feet. I finally got my QAS free after a good strugle, and down climbed a bit, then changed over and went to the bottom. fatigue plays a good bit into this after over 12 hours and a nasty cave. When you get into problems, its best to get off rope and reasses the situation. The outcome was we re-riged the drop to keep you out of the V-crack better.

I use a frog system. I'd change over. 15 feet or less and I'd probably downclimb.

I would consider changing over to be the only realistic option at 200 feet or so. I've downclimbed 60 feet (of free hang), repeatedly, quickly and without tiring. Even higher than 200', I could probably downclimb it. I'd get to the bottom eventually. But I wouldn't want to.

There's an almost true saying that anyone can climb any distance, so long as they pace themselves and don't mind taking an extremely long time. I think the same goes for downclimbing, so long as you are comfortable doing it, have good form, and your system is adjusted properly (which are important for climbing too).