Cavechat.org

Aah - thank you both for helping me to reach enlightenment...

Indeed, due to the many rope/knot factors, you might find Your Experience May Vary.

Or you may find Yet More Manipulative Villans. But I'm all for Yes Mum More Vanilla myself.

How about a bio-vanilla powered car?

Hope this thread is not too frayed....

All the literature I found stated that there was no difference in strength between an inside and outside figure 8 or a bowline. In regard to the bowline, On Rope (page 43 col 2) states “actual tests indicate no strength difference between the two ways of tying, inside or out sideâ€

Very interesting, Mike. Unfortunately I'm geographically separated from my copy of On Rope and other literature at the moment, but I'll take your word for it.

Robert's early posts on this thread indicate the "wrong" way of tying a figure 8 may make it slightly more prone to slippage - rather than making it a weaker knot, per se. I don't imagine this is a huge concern with us all using our old furry caving ropes (with lots of surface friction), but on a shiny new rope (perhaps even a wet rope) this factor may come into play.

Some may prefer to tie a backup knot "just in case", but personally I never find it necessary with a figure 8. However I always dress it tight, and leave at least a 4 inch tail.

Mike Rz wrote:All the literature I found stated that there was no difference in strength between an inside and outside figure 8 or a bowline.

But have you found all the literature (and, what do they know, anyway!)?

In regard to the bowline, On Rope ... does state that the outside bowline configuration may be prone to snagging and rolling.

You are referring to On Rope, 2nd ed.. Note that in that edition
the images for the 3-,4-,5-coil Prusiks were turned upside-down, and as such
will not work(!) (one word of text was changed, to match). So, be careful
of what you read (alas)! --esp. re knots!!
As for the outsidEnd Bowline being more prone to some sort of rolling, I think
that that's a myth; what it IS is more, much more, resistant to spilling on
ring-loading (i.e., pulling apart the eye, say, if it got snagged).

[quote]In regard to the Figure 8, On Rope (page 45 , col 2) states “ According to Montgomery, it is possible to tie this knot incorrectly, resulting in about a 10 % strength loss. Knot destructive tests and Ashley confirm that this is not the case. Whether the standing line travels the inside or the outside path, it really makes no difference.â€