Hair caught in descender

Discuss vertical caving, equipment, & techniques. Also visit the NSS Vertical Section.

Moderator: Tim White

Hair caught in descender

Postby Scott McCrea » Dec 19, 2005 12:33 pm

Anyone have experiences with hair being caught in racks or other descending devices? Or even ascending devices? Care to share? Let's learn from others hairy events.

I've never had it happen to me, but I practiced once by clipping my helmet strap thru a rack. It's a good thing to try once.

This topic was inspired by a news report I just read:

"Santa's Beard caught in pulley during a dramatic descent into a stadium filled with 20,000 people." :santa: LINK.

And here's the pic...
Image
Scott McCrea
SWAYGO
User avatar
Scott McCrea
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: Asheville, NC USA
NSS #: 40839RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Flittermouse Grotto
  

Postby speloman » Dec 19, 2005 1:15 pm

Never had my hair caught but my shirt yes. I forgot to tuck in my shirt when I harnessed up and it got sucked ito my rescue 8. luckly I had my little pocket knife and cut the shirt free. Now I always tuck in my shirt and that other are too. We had a rescue training where a gal with us had long hair and she got cought in a descender and they had to cut her hair. She didn't really care because she was happy to be free.
Justin Gleason 48217RE
:looking: If you can't grow it, I mine it.
User avatar
speloman
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Sep 9, 2005 4:02 pm
Location: Elko Nevada
Name: Justin Gleason
NSS #: 48217RE
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Northern Nevada Grotto
  

Postby Tim White » Dec 19, 2005 1:28 pm

speloman wrote:...little pocket knife and cut the shirt free. ...they had to cut her hair.


CUT?! :shock: That's why one should know how to do a change-over, lock-off, or some method to free a stuck item.

Scott? you thought on a loaded rope and a knife? :question:
Be safe,
Tim White 26949 RL FE

Southeastern Region Coordinator - NCRC
Editor, Nylon Highway
Senior Technical Manager - Over the Edge, Inc.
User avatar
Tim White
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Sep 8, 2005 11:57 am
Location: Suwanee, GA
  

Postby speloman » Dec 19, 2005 1:36 pm

This was way befor the time I knew how to change over and while I was in that situation it was the quickest I could think. Probly wasn't the best. But if it happend to me now yes I would do a change over. I usually always have my frog system on me now at the time I didn't. Now the rescue situation i don't know why the didn't pick her off I was just around and I was a trainee. Very green at the time and the higher ups made the call, of coarse the asked her.
Justin Gleason 48217RE
:looking: If you can't grow it, I mine it.
User avatar
speloman
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Sep 9, 2005 4:02 pm
Location: Elko Nevada
Name: Justin Gleason
NSS #: 48217RE
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Northern Nevada Grotto
  

Postby Steven Johnson » Dec 19, 2005 1:54 pm

Yep. I wait my hair in a ponytail, and usually try to tie it up under my helmet, but was careless... I was about 60 ft down a 110 ft pit and my somewhat-loose ponytail got caught in my 6-bar rack. Fortunately for me, I was going slowly and noticed quickly... I was able to lock off before getting incapacitated, then hooked in my hand ascender and inched up till I could work my hair free.

Thought about carrying a knife or scissors in case of future such engagements, but the demos of knife-on-loaded-rope convinced me that wasn't such a good idea...

I have since found better ways to tie my hair up (and keep it a bit shorter as well)...

But I now never, ever, ever do a descent without having my ascending gear at the ready as well :-)
User avatar
Steven Johnson
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 8:48 pm
Location: Oakland, CA
NSS #: 49562
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Diablo Grotto
  

Postby Scott McCrea » Dec 19, 2005 3:05 pm

Tim White wrote:Scott? you thought on a loaded rope and a knife? :question:


I think this is what you are asking. :wink:

For info, demos and discussion on loaded ropes and knives, check out this thread: LINK

To go straight to the demos go here: LINK
Scott McCrea
SWAYGO
User avatar
Scott McCrea
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: Asheville, NC USA
NSS #: 40839RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Flittermouse Grotto
  

Postby hank moon » Dec 19, 2005 4:16 pm

Thought about carrying a knife or scissors


Carrying a knife is a good idea - I would not knowingly go out/up/under without my knife. Knowing when and how to use it is another matter and one that was discussed vigorously on a PIF (Previous Incarnation of this Forum).

hank
User avatar
hank moon
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 9:52 am
Location: Salt Lake City
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 19, 2005 5:36 pm

hank_moon wrote:Carrying a knife is a good idea


Well, not the first time I've disagreed with Hank. If you need to carry a cutting tool, nothing beats an EMS trauma shears. Yes, it's a little bulkier than a folding knife, but much more controllable and will cut virtually anything.

For a wake-up call, read the story (I don't remember if it's in Freedom of the Hills or Setnika's Wilderness SAR) about a rappeler on El Capitan, descending on a hot day, anxious to get back down after a two-day climb.

He got his t-shirt caught in his descent device. So he slotted a micro-nut into a pinky-sized crack nearby to keep from spinning on the rope, took out his knife and slashed at his shirt.

To his dismay, he watched the doubled rope go springing up above him after he inadvertently severed them, leaving him hanging on a 1/4" brass nut about 1000' above the valley floor. His partner couldn't figure out how to descend to help on the now shortened ropes, so they both screamed until they caught the attention of another climbing party which was able to traverse over and help them down.

Given his height above the ground, he probably thought he was being sufficiently careful in the use of his knife. But it takes only a tiny error of judgement or execution for a knife trick to become deadly.

In my book, there is no place for an open blade near a loaded rope.

- Robert
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Postby kvart » Dec 19, 2005 6:59 pm

Steven Johnson wrote:I have since found better ways to tie my hair up (and keep it a bit shorter as well)...

But I now never, ever, ever do a descent without having my ascending gear at the ready as well :-)


Edit note - :oops: This post is by mgmills - kvart's wife who was not paying attention and didn't realize that he not she was logged in on the DB :shhh: :whistle:

Even short hair is no guarantee your hair won't get caught. I used to have long hair and was very careful to make sure it was tied back. . . then I cut my hair and was less concerned. . . going down through a constriction I "ducked my head" under a projecting rock and felt my hair sliding into the rack. Fortunately as Steven mentioned I was moving slowly and was able halt my progress and unload the rack.

Now I have even shorter hair - it doesn't extend out from under my helmet.

I've always been taught to try to avoid using a knife while on rope.
User avatar
kvart
Moderator
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 5:27 pm
Location: My World
NSS #: 32846
  

Postby hank moon » Dec 19, 2005 7:16 pm

RescueMan wrote:In my book, there is no place for an open blade near a loaded rope.


Must be a heavy book...biblical, even. :grin:

I only have a comic book, which requires much lighter knives. Love my Trango knife: http://www.trango.com/prod.php?id=104

hank
User avatar
hank moon
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 9:52 am
Location: Salt Lake City
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 19, 2005 7:33 pm

hank_moon wrote:Must be a heavy book...biblical, even.


Actually it's as light and delicate as a kiss, since it IS the KISS principle: Keep It Simple & Safe!

I only have a comic book, which requires much lighter knives. Love my Trango knife: http://www.trango.com/prod.php?id=104


Image

Hmmm... a bottle opener included?!? With a beer in one hand and the cutesy little church key in the other, how do you control your rappel? :P
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Postby wendy » Dec 19, 2005 8:40 pm

I got my shirt caught in my figure 8 a few months ago, lucky for me there was a ledge close by so I was able to step on it and get enough tension off the rope to free my shirt.
User avatar
wendy
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 10:51 am
Location: florida
Name: Wendy
NSS #: 53923
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Flint River Grotto
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 19, 2005 8:52 pm

It could have been apocryphal, but when I took my first WEMT training I was told of a woman who got not only her t-shirt but her breast caught in her rappel device. Now there's a good example of when NOT to use a knife!

I also remember at the ski slope where my High School ski club used to go in Michigan (Pine Knob), a girl with long flowing hair got it wrapped around the rope of the rope tow and (this was in the days before safety shut offs) she was scalped. I know that to a true story.

- Robert
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Mini shears

Postby hank moon » Dec 19, 2005 9:07 pm

RescueMan wrote:Actually it's as light and delicate as a kiss, since it IS the KISS principle: Keep It Simple & Safe!


Exacto! I pondered the KISS principle while watching my buddy try to cut his salami and cheese with his EMT shears. Why he didn't just bite off big hunks with his teeth was beyond me. Hmm. EMT shears, eh? Well I googled up some that might do the trick for me. Guess I'll give 'em a try one of these days. Just need to find a way to have 'em on the harness without adding too much weight with a sheath and all (but still make 'em quick to draw). And...find a way to cut my apple with 'em. Hmmm. Here's some nice-looking smallish ones, anyway for those interested:

http://www.minishears.com/

I'm a bit of a weight fanatic, y'see. This ain't the east where there's a convenient road or path to within easy walking distance of just about every cave or cliff of note. I have a hard time seeing me give up the little 19 grams o' joy that is the Trango alpine knife. Hey, knives can be KISS, too!

hank
User avatar
hank moon
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 9:52 am
Location: Salt Lake City
  

Postby Stridergdm » Dec 19, 2005 11:05 pm

Years ago here at RPI we used to throw folks off the 2nd floor balcony of the Union. Ok, we didn't so much throw them as talk them over the edge.

Usually did this on club day with all the clubs around. Due to the floor plan outside, the RPI Ambulance tended to set up shop (complete with their bus) right next to us. (and yes, this was purely coincidence.)

Two incidents come to mind.

One: club member starting to go over the edge. Ignored the "doesn't matter if it'sy our first time or your 1000th, have someone check your gear" Sure enough he heard a bar pop. He grabbed that edge SO fast it wasn't funny. He survived ok.

Two: now on topic, the only time I recall a hair problem. Woman with "poofy" hair looked forward to see friends or something. Sure enough.. wham.. locked her hair against the rack.

I was on top and got on a 2nd rope to lower myself down next to her. Meanwhile, folks below took advantage of the Ambulance setup next to us.

Namely, they grabbed the table, and the tallest guy stood on it. The lady was able to stand on HIS shoulders and unload the rack. I was able to help her get her hair out.

Fortunately this was on a sunny warm day 12' above the deck. I don't know what we would have done had it been in a cave 120' above the deck. (other than wonder what cave we were in NY :-).

Boy were we naive in those days.
User avatar
Stridergdm
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 931
Joined: Nov 1, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Capital District NY and Northern Virginia
Name: Greg Moore
Primary Grotto Affiliation: RPI Grotto
  

Next

Return to On Rope!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron