New Kong ascender designs

[driggs]

Does anyone have first-hand experience with the Kong Futura Foot Ascender yet? Specifically, I'm looking for a review of how well it remains firmly attached to a boot on long muddy climbs, something that my Petzl Pantin fails miserably at.

[driggs]

PS: Moderators, it might be useful if the name of this thread were changed to "New Kong ascender designs".

[NZcaver]

PS: Moderators, it might be useful if the name of this thread were changed to "New Kong ascender designs".

Good suggestion. Done.

[Scott McCrea]

Caverdoc has some and posted about them on his Facebook page. Surely, he wouldn't mind discussing them here too. I will check them out at convention next week but I won't be getting them muddy.

[caverdoc]

So far I've climbed my "tree ropes" out in the maple with the hand Futura. On both worn BW3 and Mammut static 11mmm ropes the channel is just big enough for the ropes (the BW3 is more like 11.5mm). New 11mm, no problem, especially tight laid ropes like our beloved PMI Pit rope. The big ropes make it a bit more difficult to thumb the safety to place the ascender on/off the rope, especially one-handed.

I have yet to try out my Kong Futura foot assembly, but soaked it a couple times in the shower to hopefully shrink the webbing harness closer to future length. It looks very sturdy. Unlike the Pantin there is a metal (Stainless steel, I believe) L-shaped piece of metal that goes under the boot on the outside of the foot (opposite the ascender body). Like the Pantin, there is no safety latch to manipulate.

If you're having trouble with the webbing slipping on the Pantin, here is what I did. On the aluminum buckle I filed some v-shaped "valleys" on the piece closest to the foot. The webbing passes over this piece and these V's grip it. I've not had any problems with either of my Pantins slipping loose, and have been a Pantin user since 2001. One is modified with a small aluminum bar, shaped to fit the bottom of the cam, and attached with a lock nut and stainless bolt. As such, it functions as a safety lock to keep the Pantin from coming "kicked off" the rope.

Tomorrow I have a day out of clinic so will try out the new toys in the maple tree using 8mm polyester and 10mm PMI Talon ropes.

Originally I thought the hand Futura would be a good upper ascender in my Mitchell system. Not so. I want to try it as the upper ascender in a Frog system. It is marked with glyphs suggesting "no 2-person loads" and load-rated to 100kg. My friends know I am pushing that envelope!

Dr Jay

[chh]

hey caverdoc, what is the safety catch on the kong hand ascender like? I couldn't tell how it worked from the photo Scott posted. It's got one, right?

Does everyone really hate the pantin that much? Man, I love that thing. I'd be lost without it (translated as: I'd work a whole lot harder than I have to). Plus when I forget I have it on and go somewhere that isn't work or a cave, I sound like a cowboy. ca-chink, step, ca-chink, step, ca-chink..... "Why yes little lady, I WOULD like to supersize it!

[driggs]

If you're having trouble with the webbing slipping on the Pantin, here is what I did. On the aluminum buckle I filed some v-shaped "valleys" on the piece closest to the foot. The webbing passes over this piece and these V's grip it. I've not had any problems with either of my Pantins slipping loose, and have been a Pantin user since 2001. One is modified with a small aluminum bar, shaped to fit the bottom of the cam, and attached with a lock nut and stainless bolt. As such, it functions as a safety lock to keep the Pantin from coming "kicked off" the rope.

Very interesting... if it's not too much trouble, could you post a photo of this filed Pantin buckle modification in an appropriate thread? I don't have any problem with the foot ascender coming off the rope, but my interest in the Kong Futura is due to the fact that my Pantin frequently comes loose from my boot; it sounds like you've found a solution more elegant than my "overhand knot in the strap" method. From the looks of the Futura, the metal bracket may keep climbing forces from working the straps loose, but I'd hoped to hear from a happy user before dropping the cash to research this myself. Like most who have given them a real chance, I'm hooked on frogging with a foot ascender, but feel that I haven't yet found the perfect device yet.

[caverdoc]

chh: the hand ascender DOES have a safety catch, it's just very small and stamped aluminum.

Dave, I'll see if I can figure out my camera well enough to photo the modification. I also have a modification that adds a safety catch to the Pantin (which is really redundant, once you learn the proper kick-step). I'll try to get that photo up as well. Not my idea, I read about it in an issue of Texas Caver around 2001.

Dr J

[gdstorrick]

Post deleted.

[caverdoc]

Gary
Thanks for you usual spot-on observations.
I've been using the "right"hand Futura as the top ascender in a Frog rig.
Downclimbing is manageable by thumbing down the small metal post/stud, molded into the cam.
On the usual American SRT rope, 11mm diameter and a bit fuzzy, the cam stop cannot be easily engaged unless you move the ascender body down the rope slightly. This causes the cam teeth to catch and pull the cam upward/forward. This is not a problem on "alpine" ropes of 9 or 10mm, with smooth sheaths from riggin away from rubs.
Have to agree with you Gary on the hand grips. The large doesn't quite fit my hand either, especially with gloves.
More to follow as I continue to use this acender...

Jay KennedyMD

PS. The price is definitely NOT a selling point!

[NSS8921]

The Kong Futura Body ascender is a huge disappointment! I began frogging on 9mm EZ Bend and in mid-stroke, the ascender completely disengaged itself. I re-attached it and tried repeatedly - it consistently 'popped' off. I note that the gap between the cam and the body is much larger than any of my other ascenders - ISC, old and 'new' Jumars and two generations of CMI's.

Next I tried it on 11mm Isostatic - it stayed on the rope but very reluctantly engaged after sliding down a foot. This behavior was also consistent.

Just to be clear, this is the 'body' ascender and not the 'chest' ascender that looks like a croll.

So, has any one else had any problems with this ascender?

[jharman2]

That's not good. Thanks for posting, I was considering trying one out but after being quite disappointed with the foot ascender I was hesitant. Now I certainly won't be wasting my money.

[ndonaldj]

On saturday a group of us went to Neilsons Well. My friend Lance who was leading the trip uses the kong chest and hand ascenders, he uses a pantin instead of the kong foot ascender. But as we were coming out of the entrance pit he was having a hard time with them because they wouldnt grip the wet 11mm rope. He said he wont be using them for wet caving anymore.