old webbing

Discuss vertical caving, equipment, & techniques. Also visit the NSS Vertical Section.

Moderator: Tim White

old webbing

Postby Trog » Dec 3, 2005 3:34 am

I was going through my stuff and I found a lot of the webbing used back when I was rock climbing. It was in a trunk and still looks as good as when I put them there back in 1999. I didn't take any falls on lead on them and but I did use them for top roping. I'm not interested in the harness but there's a lot of webbing that I can still use in caving.

is this safe to use? what's the lifespan of webbing? This was kept away from the sun and away from any chemicals. If it need to test it, what's a quick and easy way to do so?
Trog
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 14, 2005 4:25 am
Location: Philippines
  

Postby Phil Winkler » Dec 3, 2005 9:10 am

I still use my seat harness I had made back in 1980. The webbing is seat belt webbing, the stitching is nylon thread stitched by machine. I can't imagine there would be anything wrong with your harness based on what you describe. A visual examination of the stitching and webbing should be sufficient.
Phil Winkler
13627 FE
User avatar
Phil Winkler
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2371
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 8:48 am
Location: Wilmington, DE and Dewey Beach
NSS #: 13627FE
  

Re: old webbing

Postby RescueMan » Dec 3, 2005 9:42 am

Trog wrote:what's the lifespan of webbing?


The same as rope. Escept it's easier to inspect than rope, since there is no hidden core.

If it's stored well-protected as you describe, it's not noticeably frayed or stiff, and it's not marked in the middle with felt tip pen, then I would have no qualms about using it.

- Robert
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Postby Dan Sullivan » Dec 3, 2005 5:28 pm

There was a discussion about the shelf life of nylon products on the last DB. I believe 5 years was the number given, which would be a manufacturing or sellers shelf life. IMO, natural user life depends totally on how you use and care for the item.

I believe the main topic last time was about Petzl helmets, but ropes and webbing were also discussed as being nylon with a 5 year shelf life.
Dan Sullivan
 
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 3, 2005 6:14 pm

Dan Sullivan wrote:There was a discussion about the shelf life of nylon products on the last DB. I believe 5 years was the number given, which would be a manufacturing or sellers shelf life.


Yes, it's true that manufacturers often suggest a rather short shelf life - both to sell more product and to minimize their liability. Consequently many rescue squads wrote SOPs requiring retirement of rope and webbing after 5 years, regardless of use or condition.

Studies, however, have shown that shelf life and even use life can be much longer than that.

CMC Rescue
Technical Report #1
November 1998, CMC Rescue, Inc.

ROPE LIFE: When to Retire Your Rescue Lifeline

According to DuPont, the shelf life of their Nylon T707 (such as Wellington Commercial Cordage uses to make CMC Rescue Lifeline) should be indefinite unless altered by excessive exposure to certain chemicals, heat and sunlight. In the safety field, 1 to 2 years of use and 5 years of storage are recommended for synthetic ropes. (Ellis, J. Nigel. Introduction to Fall Safety. Des Plaines, IL: American Society of Safety Engineers; 1998.)

In June of 1990, Wellington Commercial Cordage tested samples of Rhino Rescue Rope stored for seven years by Bridger Coal's mine rescue team in Wyoming. The sample was 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) diameter, low-stretch kernmantle rope. The manufacturer's new rope tensile strength rating was 9,000 pounds (40.34 kN). For comparison, the independent lab tests on new Rhino Rescue Rope in 1983 averaged 10,495 pounds (47.04 kN). The test results from the Bridger Coal samples suggest minimal strength loss when the rope is properly stored.

Break #1 11,200 pounds (50.20 kN)
Break #2 10,600 pounds (47.51 kN)
Break #3 11,000 pounds (49.30 kN)
Average 10,933 pounds (49.00 kN)

Section 5.2.2 of ASTM F 1740 - 96 Guide for Inspection of Nylon, Polyester, or Nylon/Polyester Blend, or Both Kernmantle Rope, recommends ten years as a maximum rope life. How a rope is used and stored has a greater effect on rope life than any other factor.

[ASTM #F-1740 - Standard Guide for Inspection of Nylon, Polyester, or Nylon/Polyester Blend Kernmantle Rope says: Retire any rope which is greater than 10 years old, regardless of rope history and usage because there is no universally agreed upon “shelf-lifeâ€
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Postby Phil Winkler » Dec 3, 2005 7:28 pm

One might wonder why auto manufacturers don't recommend replacement of seat belts as they are all nylon, too. They don't because it isn't necessary.

Still, those are all good points made and useful info, too.
Phil Winkler
13627 FE
User avatar
Phil Winkler
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2371
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 8:48 am
Location: Wilmington, DE and Dewey Beach
NSS #: 13627FE
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 3, 2005 7:56 pm

Phil Winkler wrote:One might wonder why auto manufacturers don't recommend replacement of seat belts


Because no one keeps a car for more than 5 years? :roll:
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Postby Nico » Dec 4, 2005 8:11 pm

One might wonder why auto manufacturers don't recommend replacement of seat belts as they are all nylon, too. They don't because it isn't necessary


My 1993 Volkswagen bug did have a label on the seatbelts stating that the belt's protective properties would expire in five years.

But of course if people takes good care of their equipment it has a longer lifespan than whats recommended by the manufacturer, my seat harness is 8 years old.
Saludos
Nico
Nico
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Sep 30, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: Sabinas NL Mex
  

Postby Stridergdm » Dec 4, 2005 8:58 pm

RescueMan wrote:
Phil Winkler wrote:One might wonder why auto manufacturers don't recommend replacement of seat belts


Because no one keeps a car for more than 5 years? :roll:


And then that's when I buy them cheap. :-)
User avatar
Stridergdm
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Nov 1, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Capital District NY and Northern Virginia
Name: Greg Moore
Primary Grotto Affiliation: RPI Grotto
  

Postby karst97 » Dec 6, 2005 6:15 pm

RescueMan wrote:
Phil Winkler wrote:One might wonder why auto manufacturers don't recommend replacement of seat belts


Because no one keeps a car for more than 5 years? :roll:


Hmm, my cars/trucks are 8, 11, 37, and 53 years old...

Scott
karst97
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 30, 2005 4:09 pm
Location: Oregon
NSS #: 23427
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 6, 2005 11:55 pm

karst97 wrote:Hmm, my cars/trucks are 8, 11, 37, and 53 years old...


Well that's why you need four vehicles - just to make sure that you have one that's still running! :P

I can't afford four vehicles so I had to buy a new one. But if I had gotten a car for my birthday, it'd be 53 years old today. :lol:

- Robert
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Postby Scott McCrea » Dec 7, 2005 6:56 am

Happy 53rd, Robert! :happybirthday: :woohoo:
Scott McCrea
SWAYGO
User avatar
Scott McCrea
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: Asheville, NC USA
NSS #: 40839RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Flittermouse Grotto
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 7, 2005 1:09 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:Happy 53rd, Robert! :happybirthday: :woohoo:


Thanks - after I made the last post, I thought someone might respond thusly.

But, actually, what I should have said is that today is one day in the year in which that vehicle (and i) would be considered 53 years old.

Isn't it odd that we're considered the same age for a whole year, and then suddenly we get a year older?

But...this is way off thread. My fault!

- Robert
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Postby Scott McCrea » Dec 7, 2005 1:26 pm

:doh: Dec 7... March 5... whatever. I can see how I got those dates confused. :huh: I guess I'll just keep celebrating your non-birthday, quitely. :grab:
Scott McCrea
SWAYGO
User avatar
Scott McCrea
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: Asheville, NC USA
NSS #: 40839RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Flittermouse Grotto
  

Postby RescueMan » Dec 7, 2005 1:39 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:I guess I'll just keep celebrating your non-birthday, quitely.


Also, I was trying to make fun of this whole "birthday" notion ("if I had gotten a car on my birthday, it'd be 53 years old"), since we really have only one birthday - all the rest are anniversaries.

Am I still off topic?

- Robert
aVERT
a Vertical Emergency Response Training
to aVERT disaster in the VERTical environment
User avatar
RescueMan
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Warren VT
  

Next

Return to On Rope!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron