Question from emailer

[cavescom]

Got this today(below) and maybe someone can respond...I told him to check this group later. Mark

I climb trees and sit in tree stands, max 30 feet, and I use a full safety harness attached to a safety line. However, in the event of a fall, getting loose from the harness and descending would be dangerous. Right now, I use a climbing knot that I slide up the safety rope as I climb but binds if you fall. That way I’m attached to the safety line during the entire accent. Do they make a device that I can attach easily to the rope that acts like the knot, but has some way to allow me to descend on the rope while still wearing the harness?

Other ideas?

I’ve seen some metal rings called descenders, I don’t know how they are used, but I’ll be hanging from a safety line that goes all the way to the ground.

Is there something I could keep in a pocket that I could use on the line to descend with. However, my harness is attached at the back of my neck and the strap is 2 feet with some shock absorbing built in. That means the knot will be 3 feet above me. I need to be able to take the weight off the knot, REACH the knot and slide it down. Otherwise I’m back to trying to get out of the harness.

Limitations:

I have a lot of stands with safety lines in place. Whatever I use needs to be lightweight and easy to connect. That is what I like about the knot, it is tied on with a 5 inch loop sticking out. I hook my harness to it and start climbing. Anything else will have to be on me in an accessible pocket.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Robbin

[Popoy]

Ummmm... the hanging from the neck part gives me the jibbies

I guess I don't understand the whole harness setup he uses... why not a normal harness? That way he could use a normal rig to ascend... like the Petzl gizmos...

BTW I would LOVE to know this knot - I've been known to forget my Tiblocs when the plan is just to scout around

[adleedy]

Ummmm... the hanging from the neck part gives me the jibbies

I guess I don't understand the whole harness setup he uses... why not a normal harness? That way he could use a normal rig to ascend... like the Petzl gizmos...

BTW I would LOVE to know this knot - I've been known to forget my Tiblocs when the plan is just to scout around

Id say he is just using a hunters treestand harness, which are easy to come by at your local walmart or bowshop.

[NZcaver]

Ummmm... the hanging from the neck part gives me the jibbies

I guess I don't understand the whole harness setup he uses... why not a normal harness? That way he could use a normal rig to ascend... like the Petzl gizmos...

This style of harness has what is called a "dorsal attachment" on the back. It's pretty standard for industrial fall arrest situations. They're not designed for rappelling from that attachment, as the unfortunate person is *usually* lowered to safety. However most have additional attachments on the front as well. See here for some examples.

I agree a simple solution would probably be to use different equipment, like a regular seat harness. But to each their own.

BTW I would LOVE to know this knot - I've been known to forget my Tiblocs when the plan is just to scout around

I'm guessing it's probably a regular Prusik hitch.

[NZcaver]

Here's a couple of possible solutions to the situation described in the initial post:

Do they make a device that I can attach easily to the rope that acts like the knot, but has some way to allow me to descend on the rope while still wearing the harness?

It depends on what you mean when you say "acts like the knot." Basically yes, there are a wide range of mechanical descenders that will probably do the job. One which seems quite suited to this is the Petzl I'D, but it's neither tiny nor particularly cheap ($180).

Or... you can just use a different knot. Try one that will slip when manipulated, allowing you to descend in a controlled manner. That's what the arborists do. The Blake's Hitch and Valdotain Tress both seem to be popular. Check out this link for more info and terminology on climbing hitches. However there can be problems if the rope is wet or icy, and complications can arise from the cord-to-rope diameter ratio. Plus you still need to be able to reach the hitch to lower yourself, and these hitches are more complicated to tie than the Prusik hitch(?) which you are using now.

I still think the most simple solution to this "left hanging" problem would be to use a harness attachment at the front rather than the back. If the harness you have does not have a front attachment at all, perhaps consider getting yourself a regular climbing seat harness? That way you can easily operate whatever you like - hitches, descenders, mechanical ascenders, etc.

By the way, are you using kernmantel (climbing-type) rope or laid (twisted) type? It does make a difference.