Advice for Froggin (w Pantin)

[Wormster]

Ditch the climbing harness and GGG H chest harness then get a torca sit harness and a petzl torse chest harness.

As one who has progressed from using a Torse to using the GGG chest harness, I can confidently say the latter runs rings around the former - at least for me. Needs to be cinched a little tighter than shown in the photo, though!

I'm not familiar with a "Torca", but certainly a maillon-style or other low attachment harness is the way to go.

Apologies NZcaver got the name wrong its the Singing Rock Torca:

http://www.singingrock.com/GoodsDetail_ ... nguageID=2

Coupled with a Petzl Torse:

http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=142

Also use a 10mm alloy semi circular maillion to connect it all up. Loads of space to attach cowstails, hand ascender, stop and breaking carabina.

http://www.berniescafe.co.uk/catalog/pr ... 63b6f87af2

best of both worlds, lightweight, minimal and above all COMFORTABLE.

[JoeyS]

For what it's worth, I've been using the Pantin for my last dozen pits and I like it alot. I haven't mastered kicking it off rope yet, but that's mostly because I like it on the rope, and I don't think about taking it off rope until I'm negotiating the lip. By that time I don't have the full range of motion to kick it properly. I tried the alternating step method (ropewalker-like) mentioned in the instructions, but found it to be akward. I just keep the left foot in the footloop and the right on the rope (and move them together) and it works great.

[tncaveres]

JoeyS I agree. I would not think of climbing without my pantin now that I have been using it the last 6 months.
One thing I noticed is you need to retighten your harness after you set down in your harness . It will pull the croll closer to you which will inturn pull you closer to the rope.
I like the GGG seat harness & chest harness.

[Ronaldo]

I will concur that the Pantin ascender has really made me appreciate the frog a lot more. I used to lose momentum when the croll would stick and I was not pinching the rope hard enough with my feet. Now the Pantin takes all that out and I no longer lose that momentum. I used one with Blue Water recently and had a bit of trouble getting started, I actually had to feed the pantin for a few steps. That is the first time I have had that happen, usually with a stiff rope that is not a problem no matter how gritty the rope is.

I have used Petzel Super Avante sit harnesses for a while now as do most of my frogging caving partners. They are simple, have a low attachment point, and have as much engineering going into the design and construction as any on the market. I much prefer a professionally engineered harness to a stiched up one from an outfitter. No offense to those who custom sew harnesses, I just like the R+D that goes into The Petzel gear. Any low attachment harness needs a butt strap added for using with a frog system to keep the leg loops from sagging, and this makes the frog system feel like a body harness. I had Howie sew one on for mine. This spoils you and makes you want the croll on for any rappel, even if you are not going to climb.

I use a Petzel Torse strap and my only complaint is that it rubs my neck. I am strongly considering some of these suggestions for a new torso strap.

Happy Frogging!!
Ron Adams

[jumar]

Did some more practice the other day. My technique must be improving, because I was able to frog a lot more length of rope without getting nearly as tired.

One observed problem with a climbing harness: if I hook my croll biner to the belay loop, the croll stays oriented pretty good, but is of course too high. If I put the biner through the waistbelt and lower belt of the harness it puts the croll much lower, but then the croll is turned a little, so the rope drags over the edge of the biner, causing more friction. I'll need to get myself a caving harness, I just need to try to scrounge up some $$.

But it's encouraging to see my technique getting better. We're working on building a climbing wall in my yard that I can use for further cave training. I want to try to simulate crossing over a lip etc on the wall for practice with that.

[tncaveres]

Good to hear it is getting better for you.
I had a guy call alittle while ago wanting to go tomorrow & practice change overs on rope.
So I guess I will be on rope tomorrow myself.

[jumar]

Got to try out my latest frog skills in a cave here in Utah last weekend. It was much easier! And I haev a GGG caver seat harness ordered, so it should get even easier.
http://www.my-mania.com/caving/owl.html