Harness Question (Petzl vs MTDE)

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Harness Question (Petzl vs MTDE)

Postby Amazingracer » Jul 23, 2007 9:01 pm

I have used a Superavanti from Petzl on loan for a while now, and I really like it. Thinking of purchasing one for myself, but I saw the Peztl Fractio and it looks like the Superavanti except the metal attachment points and the double strap. Didnt know if anyone knows if the double strap or metal attachment points make a noticeable difference.

Also I found the MTDE PICOS (http://www.mtde.net/product_info.php?products_id=35).

I like that bum strap, as I am not a fast frog climber so Im often hanging in the sitting position taking a breather. It looks like a really nice harness. Has anyone used one of these?

However so far I havent been able to find an MTDE dealer stateside. I dont mind ordering one from Europe but the shipping is killer, rounds out to about $35 for shipping.
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Re: Fractio vs. Superavanti

Postby fuzzy-hair-man » Jul 23, 2007 11:04 pm

Amazingracer wrote:I have used a Superavanti from Petzl on loan for a while now, and I really like it. Thinking of purchasing one for myself, but I saw the Peztl Fractio and it looks like the Superavanti except the metal attachment points and the double strap. Didnt know if anyone knows if the double strap or metal attachment points make a noticeable difference.


Which ascending system do you use? as this can effect your choice of harness, also your body shape, ie if you are top heavy you might appreciate a harness with a waist (as versus a hip) belt, depending on your ascending system.
That said if you are happy with the Superavanti, PitViper, Goliath frog, Fractio these will (I think) suit pretty much any ascending system and have low attachment points which are good especially for frogging.

I found the double strap annoying and essentially useless, I ended up getting a PMI Pit Viper which is basically identical to the Petzl Superavanti anyway(Pit Viper has less protection for the waist strap buckle against rub).

I'd also add that the metal rings (in my mind anyway) are a bad thing, as they let your D or delta mailon rotate easier than the webbing loops of the superavanti, this gets really annoying when on rope (yes my harness was done up tight). The plus for the metal rings is they can help to make your mailon a little less cluttered and may be marginally easier to get the harness done up (I don't really find this to be the case)

Some people who use a frog and have a seperate cord to link thier upper ascender to thier harness can also use a metal ring to attach this cord and it keeps the knot away from your Croll. The downside (minor) is if the metal ring were to break your upper ascender wouldn't be attached to your harness, although I think the likely hood of this being an issue is slim.

There are some other threads around here on harnesses
Some interesting harnesses not so well known in the US are MTDE harnesses from Europe that have a strap which goes under your bottom to make the harness more comfortable. I haven't tried one so I don't know if it works or not I suspect it would make a difference if you were in your harness on rope for long periods of time without a break.

Others to check out are Gonzo Guano Gear, On Rope Goliath Frog, PMI Pit Viper, and some others.
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Postby fuzzy-hair-man » Jul 23, 2007 11:13 pm

The MTDE are recommended by Al Warild in his book vertical (available free online at http://caves.com/vertical/) he uses the Amazonia and the MTDE Garma chest harness(less important). (Check out the organisation section where Al talks about his setup)

Al is certainly an experienced vertical caver so I have no problems accepting his advice.

I think that someone (possibly Al, I don't know) is importing MTDE into Australia if that helps they may be able to send stuff to the US.
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Postby Amazingracer » Jul 24, 2007 8:35 am

I use the Frog setup. I browsed the other trheads but no one made a mention of the MTDE harness. Actually there is one most mentioned somewhere that some got one from IMO a long time ago, but IMO no longer sells MTDE.

I really like the supervanti so Im probably going with that, but if I could find a way to get a MTDE harness sent here for less than an arm and a leg, I'd definitely get that one.

The prices on the MTDE arent too bad either, its the shipping that killer, I found one for $75USD, but its $50USD to ship, and MTDE.net had it for $99USD, but $37USD to ship.
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Re: Fractio vs. Superavanti

Postby paul » Jul 25, 2007 7:19 am

fuzzy-hair-man wrote:I'd also add that the metal rings (in my mind anyway) are a bad thing, as they let your D or delta mailon rotate easier than the webbing loops of the superavanti, this gets really annoying when on rope (yes my harness was done up tight). The plus for the metal rings is they can help to make your mailon a little less cluttered and may be marginally easier to get the harness done up (I don't really find this to be the case)

Some people who use a frog and have a seperate cord to link thier upper ascender to thier harness can also use a metal ring to attach this cord and it keeps the knot away from your Croll. The downside (minor) is if the metal ring were to break your upper ascender wouldn't be attached to your harness, although I think the likely hood of this being an issue is slim.


FWIW, over the years I used to use Petzl harnesses starting with a Croll (no longer available - a BIG pain to adjust) then various older Fractios (before they added the useless second waist strap) - all with metal rings.

The last couple of harnesses (I don't collect them - only replace older ones!), including my current one, is the "Digger" models made by a Czhecoslovakian company called "Singing Rock". These are easy to get here in the UK - I don't know about the US.

These are very similar to the older Petzl Fractios and without the extra waist strap and cost about half as much.

I prefer to have the metal rings as they definitely make putiing the harness on a lot easier: clipping the open end of the central maillon to the metal ring is much easier than a loop of harness. I don't have problems with the maiilon rotating but then I ude a "D" shape. I attache the safety link from the top jammer (in a frog setup) to the bottom of the central maillon using a 7mm long maillon, as it keeps it out of the way and also the 7mm maillon fits the screwed sleeve of my cental maillon and can be used to cinch it up tight.
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Re: Fractio vs. Superavanti

Postby Wormster » Jul 25, 2007 9:08 am

paul wrote:The last couple of harnesses (I don't collect them - only replace older ones!), including my current one, is the "Digger" models made by a Czhecoslovakian company called "Singing Rock". These are easy to get here in the UK - I don't know about the US.


I bought the torca its utterly fantastic.

I reckon that if you go to the manufacturer directly yhry'd be able to do good deal for dollars.
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Postby Amazingracer » Jul 25, 2007 9:23 am

I like the Torca, it looks like it fits on the same a rock climbing harness would, if thats the case, that's awesome because that type of harness is very comfortable.

Question though about the Digger, i see the two criss cross straps in the back, about where do those place on your body? Is it like a bum strap to act like a seat?

Im looking for something that will be very comforatble while sitting on rope hanging from my frog ascenders, but still be comforatble while actually ascending, rappeling, and walking around the cave.

I found a website called Bernie's Cafe from the UK, and it looks like I can get one of these harness and shipping for about 39GBP ($80USD). If thats true, thats an excellent deal as the Petzls cost around $90USD jsut by themselves.
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Postby Rick Brinkman » Jul 25, 2007 9:39 am

I have 2 friends that each have the Torca. I think it's the best designed caving harness out there. It's very comfortable and seems to hold up well to abuse. Maybe one of them will comment here....
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Postby mntnacvr » Jul 25, 2007 10:01 am

LOVE my Torca-very comfortable, and bomb-proof. On the Maillon being easy to get on and off, I never open mine. I simply pull the strap on each side and step out. No need to ever "kit-up" again. It was VERY hard to get a hold of. I ended up getting it from Peglars, 3 mo's after I paid for it. When I did get it, the production date hand written on the tag from Chekoslovakia was only 3 day prior to my receiving it. If you can find one, go for it! We ended up with 3, at a total cost (shipping included) of $90 a piece. My only complaint so far is that the protective covering on them is very lightly stitched, and is beginning to rip out, but it's not life support.-also, the metal rings actually don't let the Maillon rotate AT ALL, there is a very specific way you put the Maillon on, and it stays well put, even when loose and crawling.
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Postby paul » Jul 26, 2007 7:11 am

Amazingracer wrote:Question though about the Digger, i see the two criss cross straps in the back, about where do those place on your body? Is it like a bum strap to act like a seat?


That'll be the rear of the waist section - same as the older Petzl Fractios (before the addition of th eextra yellow strap).

Amazingracer wrote:Im looking for something that will be very comforatble while sitting on rope hanging from my frog ascenders, but still be comforatble while actually ascending, rappeling, and walking around the cave.


I find the Digger very compfortable as do other cavers I know who have them. The only person who didn't was my partner Karen. She found the adjustment buckles on the legloops dug into her abdomen when crouching etc. but that maybe down to her particular body shape. She also found that the Petzl Fractio did the same thing but not as bad as the buckles are smaller.

Amazingracer wrote:I found a website called Bernie's Cafe from the UK, and it looks like I can get one of these harness and shipping for about 39GBP ($80USD). If thats true, thats an excellent deal as the Petzls cost around $90USD jsut by themselves.


I visit Bernies when ever I'm in the Yorkshire Dales. Its an excellent Cafe and shop run by Steve Round - Bernie was the original owner who retired back in the 80's and Steve bought it off him.

The only drawback is resisting the temptation of buying caving gear when eating in there!

They are also very competitive in their pricing - they have a bit of competiotion with Inglesport just next door!
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Postby DeWayne » Jul 29, 2007 1:33 pm

I agree with most of what has been said regarding the Fractio; that second waist strap is essentially useless from my experience with it. It does work pretty well for tangling your harness up when it is stuffed into your pack. I like the metal rings for the reason given by F-H-M; for me it is a lot easier to attach my mallion with the steel rings as opposed to working it through webbing loops (I have arthritis, so this was a big selling point for me.) The mallion does tend to rotate more then you see with web loops, but it is not that bad once you become aware of it. It is a good harness overall, but my next one will be much simpler.
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Postby Eric Wright » Jul 29, 2007 8:11 pm

mntnacvr wrote:LOVE my Torca-very comfortable, and bomb-proof.


Hey Andy or other Torca users:

Does the torca have keeper straps on the butt to keep the leg loops from drooping down and the waist-belt from riding up? This has been kind of an annoying aspect of my harness (an Onrope1 goliath). I've been thinking of modding it (or sending it to onrope1 so that they can do it).
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Postby Rick Brinkman » Jul 29, 2007 10:44 pm

The Torca has 2 elastic straps for leg keepers.

I sewed leg keepers/but straps onto my Goliath. Not so much to keep the legs up, but to spread the weight more over my butt, rather than everything all on my legs.
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