Rack Decision ...

[Caver1402]

Should I go with this: http://www.onrope1.com/store/index.php? ... &parent=14 ?

I have small hands ...

I have used both a regular rack and a micro rack, but I am by no means an expert and the site says the micros are only for the extremely proficient. Any advice?

I was considering the micro simply because it is smaller and on long trips ... well, you can guess stuff gets heavy after awhile!

[David_Campen]

I used to use a 6-bar j-frame rack but now I use a micro rack because it weighs less. Except for the weight consideration I would still be using the 6 bar j-frame rack.

If you get a 6-bar j-frame rack I would suggest you get an SMC rack since that is available with the 90 degree twist in the eyelet.

A u-frame micro rack weighs less but it can be more dangerous. If you get a micro rack I would suggest that you get the longer frame and a single hyperbar.

[Ralph E. Powers]

What I'm wondering is why is the more "narrower" J-bar rack for the more proficent? I don't understand the concept of it except that it might be useful in tight/confined space rappels... not that the standard rack was any problem in that area anyway (least, not for me).

Is it because it's less friction??

Ok, I don't get it! Inquiring minds want to know!

[David_Campen]

What I'm wondering is why is the more "narrower" J-bar rack for the more proficent? I don't understand the concept of it

And I don't understand the question. What is a 'more "narrower" J-bar rack'? The initial post was about a 6 bar j-frame rack vs. a 4 bar u-frame rack.

[ljthawk]

The link above is for a narrow j framed rack.

Since I have done most of my caving in TAG, if I could only own one rack, I would buy a normal six bar non-hyperbar rack for its utility and adjustability; it can be used on short & long rappels (over 600’), clean or dirty rope, fat or thin rope, etc. The thought of it weighing more or being larger has never crossed my mind on long or tight trips. I wouldn’t pay the increased cost of a narrow framed large rack when it would most likely give up utility (double rope rappel).

I own a long micro rack as well, but haven’t used it much. I still grab the six bar rack for now, but will try using the micro more often. I opted for the long micro because it has more room to adjust the bars.

If I have the opportunity to cave more outside of the US or in areas that use many rebelays I probably will come to appreciate the micro rack more.

L.J.

[Scott McCrea]

The width of a rack does not influence friction. Well, unless you are trying to do a double rope rap with a narrow rack, which doesn't work well. The benefit is reduced weight and bulk. Also, a narrow rack, so I'm told, is easier to grip by smaller handed people.

As for which rack to buy, consider what most of the folks you cave with use.

[pacaver]

I bought a narrow frame rack for reduced weight, but found it was difficult to drop a bar on a loaded rope. A friend who bought a narrow frame rack voiced the same complaint. A good suggestion earlier in the thread was to look at what your crew was using. I graduated from a figure 8 to a long body micro rack and while I have now have narrow and regular framed 6 bar racks, I much prefer my micro unless the drops are going to be significantly over 200 feet. If you expect to do pull down trips that are rigged traditionally, i.e. having 2 ropes feed through your device, the regular framed 6 bar is the ticket. Take a look at what you really expect to do and choose that. Of course once you really get into it, your gear collection will probably expand; gear collecting becomes a terrible sickness, but the vendors will love you!

[fuzzy-hair-man]

A u-frame micro rack weighs less but it can be more dangerous.

More dangerous than what? a J frame rack? or a micro rack? and why?

Curious to know...

[Todd]

I was considering the micro simply because it is smaller and on long trips ... well, you can guess stuff gets heavy after awhile!

After practicing with a few borrowed racks I bought a BMS micro to save weight and space, since I tend to carry extra stuff for photos, but I've found that on older, stiffer rope I sometimes don't move at all. It works fine on a new rope, but on used ropes I've had times when I had to carefully descend inch by inch. My next purchase is going to be a long frame micro.

[NZcaver]

A u-frame micro rack weighs less but it can be more dangerous.

More dangerous than what? a J frame rack? or a micro rack? and why?

Curious to know...

I'm another one curious to know the answer to that one. Oh no, micro racks are dangerous I had better discard all mine immediately...

I have used both a regular rack and a micro rack, but I am by no means an expert and the site says the micros are only for the extremely proficient.

I would venture to say that one should be reasonably proficient before using any rappel device for in-cave SRT. If you have already used these 2 devices safely and successfully, then you will probably be fine with either one. Like Scott said, maybe go with the same choice your caving companions use - and have the more experienced friends help you with further coaching, if needed. Maybe your grotto could set up a vertical training/practice, or you could attend a vertical workshop at Convention one year.

As for needing to be "extremely proficient" to operate a micro-rack... I fail to see why this device needs special emphasis over any other descending device. Sure they all have their own operating characteristics, but this micro rack paranoia is a little ridiculous in my humble opinion. It's hardly more complex and certainly no less safe than any other rack, bobbin, autostop etc when properly used. Personally, I think it's a good piece of kit, especially the longer frame single hyper bar version (assuming you want to move on those dirty, stiff, 11mm ropes...)

Of course once you really get into it, your gear collection will probably expand; gear collecting becomes a terrible sickness, but the vendors will love you!

Ah, another one afflicted with the Pox I see. Amen, brother!

[Ralph E. Powers]

My name is ralph and I'm a gear nut. Help!




and no I won't sell/part with any of my gear.

[Caver1402]

What I'm wondering is why is the more "narrower" J-bar rack for the more proficent?

I don't think it's more proficient ... I think it's meant for people with smaller hands ...

Thanks for all the advice! I'm leaning toward the longer frame micro rack with one hyperbar. I mostly cave in Indiana, Kentucky, and Missouri ... so no really deep pits headed my way anytime soon!

[ljthawk]

I opted for the double hyperbar so that if the bottom bar accidently pops off you have some overhanging meat on the third bar to engage the rope, effectively on dropping to three bars instead of two.

If this doesn’t make sense, play a little by simulating the bottom bar coming off both with a single hyperbar and a double hyperbar microrack.

L.J.

[DeWayne]

My wife is using the narrow frame rack and she loves it as she has smaller hands. The only drawback I can see to it has already been mentioned, you cannot use it on most double rope setups. I have tried it a few times and see no real difference in the way it functions as opposed to a regular sized rack; I am a lard ass in training, and both flavors of racks seem to handle my weight equally as well, although the narrow version does tend to be a bit ore difficult for me to feed rope through when first approaching the lip to the drop. Once loaded, I can really tell no difference whatsoever.

[NZcaver]

I opted for the double hyperbar so that if the bottom bar accidently pops off you have some overhanging meat on the third bar to engage the rope, effectively on dropping to three bars instead of two.

If this doesn’t make sense, play a little by simulating the bottom bar coming off both with a single hyperbar and a double hyperbar microrack.

I know what you're saying, but in my case I find it pretty hard to simulate this with either my long-frame or short-frame micro. Two reasons for this. First, both swing bars clip to the frame with a very positive action. And second, I choose to rig the bars on my racks to swing up to open - not down.