Best 2-way radios for vertical communication

[bsaul2000]

I've been somewhat unhappy with the 2-way radios I have used the past two years for bridge day and other long rappel vertical trips. Do any of you have a make and model number of radios that you have found that meet your needs or you could say you are extremely happy with them. The bridge day commission requires the radios to be 2-way family channel.

Thanks for any help.

Brian

Brian Saul
NSS 38180

P.S. If anybody has radio horror stories in radio design or function, please feel free to post those as well.

[NZcaver]

I've been somewhat unhappy with the 2-way radios I have used the past two years for bridge day and other long rappel vertical trips. Do any of you have a make and model number of radios that you have found that meet your needs or you could say you are extremely happy with them. The bridge day commission requires the radios to be 2-way family channel.

Thanks for any help.

Brian

Brian Saul
NSS 38180

P.S. If anybody has radio horror stories in radio design or function, please feel free to post those as well.

You could try searching the old threads, like this one...

Pit walkie talkies

[CaveGimp]

Like what is stated in that thread, FRS are low power only. If you can, go with the GRMS, and look for the set with the highest transmit power. That should help out a bit with the range. Make sure you pay the FCC. If you really want good communication, HF has given us very good results out here in AZ, and I'm sure elsewhere. It requires the operators to have a General class license or higher, and the radio will be more than a $20 pair of FRS at Wal-Mart. Check out the Communications and Electronics Section webpage http://www.caves.org/section/commelect/ Some of the back issues of Speleonics ® have some good cave radio articles.

[NZcaver]

Not to detract from any of the good info that Cavegimp just provided... but if your need is mainly (or exclusively) for Bridge Day events, you certainly won't need the highest power or highest tech radios to cover a range of about 1000 feet in open air.

I suggest you just get some Wal Mart cheapies, and thoroughly test them out over a similar range with the help of some friends well before Bridge Day. If there are any problems - take them back for a no-questions-asked refund and get something else. I also suggest you get the ones with the so-called "privacy code" feature (aka tone squelch). This won't really give you any privacy, but will help minimize the possibility of other users interfering with your radio traffic and causing a distraction - particularly when you're trying to coordinate vertical ropework! You might also consider radios that have a voice-operated transmission (VOX) setting, and have a jack for attaching an external microphone/earphone combo or headset.

[Scott McCrea]

What kind of problems are you having?

The biggest problem I have with them is user error. People seem to like to kiss the mic--put their mouth right up to the thing. Thishhcshe makesksshhcss itshhches soundscshhshs badsscshcshs.They work much better about 8-12 inches away. Also forgetting to wait a second or two for that annoying beepy stuff before talking. And dead batteries.

Other than that, I've had no problems. The arm band that I referred to in the earlier thread really works well.

[CaveGimp]

NZcaver, I agree that for a bridge day a good set of cheap FRS should be fine. The VOX would help out I'm sure.

I was sort of stuck on the other posts on this subject (and cell phones) and had to voice my opinion, when I might have been better to stay quiet.

[David_Campen]

I like the Cobra PR 4000 radios:
http://www.cobra.com/index.php?page=shop/browse

They are a several year old design and much better quality than most of junk that is now on the market. Only $30/pair from Cobra - I think I paid more than this a couple of years ago, perhaps they are being discontinued. I should buy another pair.

The speakers in these are good, much better sound that some Motorolas that I have.

Don't be fooled by some makes of radios that have much larger range claims that the 7 mile claim of the Cobra 4000s. Range claims on the newer radios are completely bogus - manufacturers seem to have discovered that no one polices these claims.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I've been somewhat unhappy with the 2-way radios I have used the past two years for bridge day and other long rappel vertical trips.

If you tell us what was wrong with the 2 way radios you have used in the past perhaps it will help people suggest a more suitable alternative.

[driggs]

Not to detract from any of the good info that Cavegimp just provided... but if your need is mainly (or exclusively) for Bridge Day events, you certainly won't need the highest power or highest tech radios to cover a range of about 1000 feet in open air.

What you will need for Bridge Day is a radio that can select "sub-channels". With 20 teams of 12+ members each, plus security, plus river teams below, plus random people on the bridge, the spectrum will be very full of users. I believe that a cheap radio which only lets you select, say, channel 7, will force you to listen in on every other conversation happening on every sub-channel of 7. In fact, I believe that you must either choose or be assigned a channel and sub-channel for your team at the safety meeting.

[David_Campen]

What you will need for Bridge Day is a radio that can select "sub-channels". With 20 teams of 12+ members each, plus security, plus river teams below, plus random people on the bridge, the spectrum will be very full of users. I believe that a cheap radio which only lets you select, say, channel 7, will force you to listen in on every other conversation happening on every sub-channel of 7. In fact, I believe that you must either choose or be assigned a channel and sub-channel for your team at the safety meeting.

Except that there is no such thing as a "sub-channel". The so called "sub-channels" or "privacy codes" are just a tone coded squelch. Different people using different squelch codes but on the same channel will still interefere with one another when both transmit simultaneously.

Yes, using the tone coded squelch, you will not hear coversations of other teams on the same channel using a different squelch code _if_ no one with your squelch code is transmitting simultaneously. But, for the same reason, when you go to transmit you will not know if you will be interfering with the transmission of another team on the same channel.

[bsaul2000]

I've been somewhat unhappy with the 2-way radios I have used the past two years for bridge day and other long rappel vertical trips.

If you tell us what was wrong with the 2 way radios you have used in the past perhaps it will help people suggest a more suitable alternative.

Thanks for all of the replies. Range at Bridge Day isn't as important but it help for drops like Whiteside because of the long walk. Anyway, the problems I have are annoyances but they usually mean a radio is not working.

1. using the cheaper radios I seem to run into the situation where someone can hear me but I can't hear them. (not quiet code related) The radio had a feature that allowed it to only communicate with its parter radio (same make and model.) It used a + and - symbol. However they didn't work right so after I finally figured out what the + and - meant, they still didn't work. Since it had quiet codes, that feature probably wasn't necessary but I bet having it on there allowed them to increase the price a certain %.

2. One set of radios (a gift) had the button in the middle so it was clumsy to use.

3. Another set had the big button on the side (usually the PTT) but it was the squelch and the little button was the Push To Talk. Who would design something like that.

4. One of those models seemed to have a battery that would last for 3 hours but it didn't show a slow drain like your cell phone would. It would be full and then empty.

5. One of the models makes an obnoxious beep whenever you use it but it wasn't to indicate low battery. Curse the company who designs radios and decides that obnoxious beep is the default.

I guess the gist of it is summed up in this example......

In my line of work I use a lot of rental cars and one day I turned a corner and my fountain drink rolled out of the rental car's cup holder. I sat there thinking that whoever designed this car had never used it in any situation or based their decisions on any working feedback. I guess I kind of feel the 2-way radio manufacturers are following the trend.

Thanks to the suggesting to try the Cobra radios. I am looking at them now.

Brian