putting together a frog system

[copelandcaver7]

I am putting together a frog system for short drops and I am tired of lugging my ropewalker around. But I have a question about a chest harness and Cowtails. Is the figure 8 design better made with webbing or should I buy the H design that Gonzo Gear makes? With the cowtails should I go with the Petzl sewn cowtail or the Gonzo Gear tied cowtails and does anyone know If their adjustible? As far as changeover goes I have a standard size rack SMC so its probable hard to attach it below the Croll is it better to carry a addtional ascender and clip it to the short cowtail and disconnect the croll and attact my rack or should I connect the short cowtail to the handle ascender and thumb the croll to get addtional rope so I connect my Rack? Thank you in advance with your input.

[Dwight Livingston]

My own preferences:

Tied loop of webbing and a utility 'biner.

Tied cowstails using 8mm dynamic rope and Petzl Spirit straight gate 'biners.

Clip short cowstail to rope above upper ascender (Petzl Basic)

Dwight

[chh]

Dwight has pretty much nailed my setup, except my dynamic cord is a little thicker (chopped out of a retired climbing rope), I use a small locker on the long tail, and instead of a tied loop for my chest harness I tied a 1 inch cinch buckle on the end of my webbing strap. You can use a small biner to connect to the croll (ovals seem to work well) or just run the webbing itself through the attachment point to adjust for comfort whether on or off rope.

Alternately for short drops, I go without a chest harness altogether and just use a loop of bungee through the croll and around my neck. But I don't anticipate having to rest on any of these short pitches. A webbing chest harness is nice to have if you have to hang out to rest, or take pictures, or survey on rope, but if you're just hauling a$$ through short drops. Meh.

[ian mckenzie]

Alternately for short drops, I go without a chest harness altogether and just use a loop of bungee through the croll and around my neck. But I don't anticipate having to rest on any of these short pitches.

Agree entirely; and the bungee does not really impede resting. A loop of rubber innertube works as well. But, be aware that you cannot haul a tacklebag from your harness with this setup, a proper chest harness is required as you'll be lifting the load with your shoulders. A compromise is a simple loop of tubular webbing round the neck, you can slip a shoulder thru and wear it sash-style for extra tension (always needed) which is adequate, if not perfect, for hauling.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

But, be aware that you cannot haul a tacklebag from your harness with this setup, a proper chest harness is required as you'll be lifting the load with your shoulders.

So you don't attach your pack to your harness mailon and let it hang below you? This way it does not pull your upper body backwards, the only problem is it can sometimes get caught or wrap around the rope (not that often though) if you size the attachment cord so your toes are just able to reach the pack you can get it out of cracks but it won't mess up you ascending (frog, ropewalker whatever).

[hank moon]

But, be aware that you cannot haul a tacklebag from your harness with this setup, a proper chest harness is required as you'll be lifting the load with your shoulders.

So you don't attach your pack to your harness mailon and let it hang below you? This way it does not pull your upper body backwards, the only problem is it can sometimes get caught or wrap around the rope (not that often though) if you size the attachment cord so your toes are just able to reach the pack you can get it out of cracks but it won't mess up you ascending (frog, ropewalker whatever).

Ian's talking HEAVY, man. Bag bone's connected to the MAI-yon....and therefore to the Croll, which must be raised by the shoulder straps. Climb with 20kg pack and bungie cord, better be ready for hellllll...

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Ian's talking HEAVY, man. Bag bone's connected to the MAI-yon....and therefore to the Croll, which must be raised by the shoulder straps. Climb with 20kg pack and bungie cord, better be ready for hellllll...

I hadn't thought about that....

It hasn't really happened to me though and after pulling some reasonably heavy packs and people, (rescue practice) I hadn't really noticed my shoulders being sore, I guess I assumed my harness was taking thier weight around my hips.

I haven't used a bungee cord for a chest harness though (perhaps I ought to give it a try)

[NZcaver]

I am putting together a frog system for short drops and I am tired of lugging my ropewalker around. But I have a question about a chest harness and Cowtails. Is the figure 8 design better made with webbing or should I buy the H design that Gonzo Gear makes?

I've used both. I recommend the GGG version.

With the cowtails should I go with the Petzl sewn cowtail or the Gonzo Gear tied cowtails and does anyone know If their adjustible?

Sewn ones are not adjustable, the tied ones are - but only to shorten them of course. I've always used dynamic rope cowstails, but the sewn ones are fine too and lots of people use them. Personal preference.

As far as changeover goes I have a standard size rack SMC so its probable hard to attach it below the Croll is it better to carry a addtional ascender and clip it to the short cowtail and disconnect the croll and attact my rack or should I connect the short cowtail to the handle ascender and thumb the croll to get addtional rope so I connect my Rack? Thank you in advance with your input.

If you choose to carry an extra ascender with your Frog system, a short non-handled one like the Petzl Basic should be fine. I often (but not always) carry one in addition to my Ascension and Croll - but I also use a shorter descender (Petzl Stop). The latter method you mentioned is of course cheaper and less weight.

[ian mckenzie]

Ian's talking HEAVY, man.

Even a light load on a bungee will make it stretch as you lift. Normally the shoulders/bungee only lifts the weight of the Croll (plus rope friction). If you attach even a few pounds to your maillon and hang it below you, the bungee will stretch....

[hank moon]

Ian's talking HEAVY, man.

Even a light load on a bungee will make it stretch as you lift. Normally the shoulders/bungee only lifts the weight of the Croll (plus rope friction). If you attach even a few pounds to your maillon and hang it below you, the bungee will stretch....

so twue!

[copelandcaver7]

Well I went with GGG chest harness and cowtails and their double foot loop. I am very happy with it, its so nice to have a frog, I feal like a big weight has been lifted since I desided not to use the ropewalker. Thanks for all who posted and thanks to NZCAVER you were very right about the GGG chest harness it is very comfortable.

[tncaveres]

NZcaver is right about the GGG chest harness being very comfortable.

[Wormster]

This is comfy and VERY minimal:

http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits ... ctivite=26

Its what i use in conjunction with:

http://www.singingrock.com/GoodsDetail_ ... nguageID=2

with dynamic cowstails (spirit snapgate biners)

STOP descender and steel oval braking crab.

Petzl croll, ascencion* and pantin for ascending.

*with dynamic "chord of shame" and footloop.

That just about sums up my frog rig.