Any problems with my system?

[Ernie Coffman]

This was just posted for the WR and Diablo Grotto, so...maybe this is what you purchased:Atwood Rope Mfg. Co. is a company that I have known about for about 15
years. I first saw their booth display in a Las Vegas in (circa)1990. The
display caught my eye since it appeared as if they were retailers of every
rope that we commonly use. i.e. PMI, Bluewater, New England, Columbia,
Sterling, etc. etc. 7/16" rope sold for 3 Cents a foot. It caught my eye.
Talking to the owner, I discovered the rope was only made to look like the
major brands. The owner told me how he made the sheath to look like many of
the real brands, but the core was only stuff with carpet yarns and polyester
stuffing which had little to no strength integrity.

I thought they had gone away until a few weeks ago while in Pigeon Forge,
low and behold I spy a huge display of Atwood rope. 100 feet for $9.95
(3/8"). They had on display an attempt at PMI's "Old Glory" and 100's of
other appearing to look like kernmantle knock offs.

I had a sample at TAG and a few folks got a chance to look and feel at this
pretend rope. There is a sticker on it that states it is utility rope and
not meant for life support. ...That it can only support 120 lbs safely... Of
course, after the tag gets torn off, who would know.

I spoke with Steve Hudson (PMI's President) and he shared with me that this
guy has done nothing legally wrong by copying the rope sheath pattern.

So all that we can do is be warned. It is out there. Pretend Rope. Be
careful, Always know the history and all there is to know about the ropes
you are hanging from.

Here is a Web site that has their rope for sale.
http://www.northernmountain.com/detail/PA10047 for the rope and this one
http://www.northernmountain.com/detail/PA10046 for the 'sports pack' look at
this link.. it is Atwood's site. http://www.atwoodrope.com/ definitely look
at the photo, scroll down for it all!!!

Be careful and cave with your own rope.

Bruce Bruce@onrope1.com
(posted on TAG-Net)

Thanks Bruce for sharing what you found. I've been looking at some of this stuff at Wally World, Fred Meyers, and other a sundry places...and thought better of it, naturally, but...it does look good. Even some of the sports stores are carrying some of this junk. It says it's a utility rope and that it is, but...it looks so nice.

[Bobatnathrop]

I have seen that rope around before, it really does look like good rope.

I meant to say that 'he' pulled on a long piece of it. It was like a 20ft. piece and he put his whole weight on it. I think I will just stay with the low strech stuff, for now, seeing as I dont think we will be doing any rebelay's or anything like that....just straight drops. I dont really think it is a problem.

Thanks for the help!

[Scott McCrea]

I dont really think it is a problem.

Just don't fall on it and you'll be fine.

[Dangerjudy]

I got the cowstails from Gonzo Guano gear. Just so folks know there is a 'already-made' solution.

Hey Dangerjudy, did the instructions say what kind of rope was used in the cowstails?

Well, from the GGG website, "dynamic rope double cow's tails wtih two lon-locking 'biners"

http://www.gonzoguanogear.com/frog.html

[itabot]

I have the cowstails that came with the GGG Complete Frog System. I had to adjust them a little, but its all there. The dynamic rope is kind of short for my prefrence. I've cut it twice and its still too short. :lol:

[hank moon]

I dont really think it is a problem.

Just don't fall on it and you'll be fine.

Yep, never a problem until it happens to you.

[ian mckenzie]

Well, the whole gig is about making sure things don't happen to you... isn't it?

[eyecave]

if something is pretend is it dangerous to assume it is real and treat it as if it is?.....hmmmmmm.... ....pretend ropeshould be outlawwed last night!!!....we need a good lawsuit........ ......one other point.....when you cut a rope at some point on the rope ........it results in a SHORTER ROPE.......

[Steven Johnson]

I guess ruined threads would be less likely when using a steel Maillon - or the Petzl Omni half-round "carabiner". The Omni's a nice item, despite the dollars. I just wrote a little review on it for a grotto newsletter, so I had to get a plug in! Petzl should put me on their payroll... 8)

Hey, is this review available online anywhere?

The (galvanized steel) maillon that originally came with my GGG harness needs to be replaced -- the threads have gotten gunked up and even after cleaning it requires a wrench to open or close all the way -- and this makes me nervous for a bit of equipment that I'm relying on to keep me alive

anyway, I dunno if I should replace it with stainless or aluminum or go for a fancy Omni... I've never seen an Omni in use, so how is its gate different from a normal biner? (I was always warned to never ever use a non-screwgate to close my harness, which seemed like good advice, so how is the Omni reliable enough?)

I don't mind spending the extra $20 on an Omni if it's deemed safe enough for harness closure, but since I've never seen one it use...

[pacaver]

I got an Omni screw lock about 6 months ago and have had no problems. I steered clear of the autolocker from lessons I learned about auto-locking biners jamming due to mud. A stainless half round would probably hold up good too, but once you get used to the convenience of an Omni, going back to a traditional half round seems like going back in time to using prussik knots instead of cammed ascenders. I know of a number of friends who've switched to the Omni screw lock and love it as much as I do. The only bummer is the cost.

[Scott McCrea]

I like the closure redundancy of the Omni. If you forget to screw it closed, it is still somewhat closed, similar to a non-locking biner. Of course, we shouldn't forget to screw the gates closed, but... I've left my aluminum maillon open several times, d'oh!

[Ernie Coffman]

Hi there Steve,
Boy, is this an old discussion, but...guess things come up out of the bowels of the earth every so often. Anyway, go to this link and purchase what you need: http://innermountainoutfitters.net/cata ... n%20Rapide. IMO has so many choices and so many prices, one could spend all day drooling over their list. In the first part of this link, I see where there's a natural, but...folks seem to be pushing the new Omni-Screw-Lock carabiner from Petzl, so...make your own choice. There's a big difference of fifteen bucks or so...for the low costing one to the next one; and, then it just keeps going up and up. As for getting stuck with a tightened biner, you should know the drill by now. Tighten your biner and then back it off an eighth or quarter turn. If one needs to buy an Omni for that simple problem, then so be it.

Blessings to the Diablo Grotto and have a great time rapping down the pits!

[fuzzy-hair-man]

My (and others) experience is that the steel and aluminium D and delta maillons can bend slightly when they are not screwed up and this can cause the threads to be slightly mis-aligned making the maillon harder to open and close (hence needing a spanner or another mailon to do it up or undo it) try squeezing the two slides of the maillon together and see if it makes it slightly easier if so it's likely this has happened to your maillon.

What mostly causes the maillon to stretch is having your harness on and the maillon clipped up but not yet done up, so the two sides of harness (if your harness is tight as it should be) are pulling the threads of the D maillon apart :( The best way to prevent it is to make sure as soon as you hook the maillon into your other harness loop you do the maillon up (preferably before you breath out) this also means you will rarely if ever forget to do up your maillon

I also reasonably regularly clean out the threads and lightly grease my maillon so that stays so that I can do it up and undo it by hand.