Moderator: Tim White
Stridergdm wrote:(I'm assuming you're using a frog setup?)
About the only thing here folks will agree on is that yes, you need a handled ascender!
I've heard the "use a left handed one so it won't interfere with the croll". But NZCaver has a good article where he put that to the test and found he couldn't easliy create the problem. His conclusion as I recall (and my experience using a right-handed ascender on my frog) is that it is NOT a problem.
Besides, some folks use a basic, which is even less likely to cause that problem!
Finally... see the threads Define a croll? and Do you use a QAS?
Basically, if you're using a frog, you can probably call your single handled ascender your QAS. Myself and I think all the froggers I've caved with don't bother with a 2nd handled ascender.
But, YMMV.
jacksbackw wrote:That is correct, I am using the frog system
That is the first time I have heard of people referring to their single handed ascender as their QAS.
Thank you for your feedback and recommended threads. I will ingest thoroughly.
Stridergdm wrote:With a frog, you already HAVE that. (Think about it, if you're ascending it's already on the rope and you can easily sit down on the tether, and if you're descending, it's fairly handy hanging right there.
In MY experience, once I got rid of the 2nd handled ascender, I became a more proficient SRT person. (Since I was originally taught to do change-overs using my "QAS" in addition to my normal upper ascender.)
(now if only I had learned that BEFORE shelling out the money for it
Stridergdm wrote:About the only thing here folks will agree on is that yes, you need a handled ascender!
Besides, some folks use a basic, which is even less likely to cause that problem!
I've heard the "use a left handed one so it won't interfere with the croll". But NZCaver has a good article where he put that to the test and found he couldn't easliy create the problem. His conclusion as I recall (and my experience using a right-handed ascender on my frog) is that it is NOT a problem.
Basically, if you're using a frog, you can probably call your single handled ascender your QAS. Myself and I think all the froggers I've caved with don't bother with a 2nd handled ascender.
But as NZCaver will also agree with me.. you can never have too MUCH equipment!
caverdoc wrote:You can have ENOUGH equipment, but NEVER too much!
When in doubt, buy it anyway.
NZcaver wrote: And a somewhat prolonged discussion ensued afterwards, if I recall. See Frog System.
NZcaver wrote:Stridergdm wrote:About the only thing here folks will agree on is that yes, you need a handled ascender!
Or not, if (like Dr Jay ) you prefer the smaller size and less weight of non-handled ascender like a Basic - at the expense of some ergonomics, IMHO. Like you said:Besides, some folks use a basic, which is even less likely to cause that problem!
caverdoc wrote:Lately I've been using a Petzl Basic as my "upper" frog ascender. I like the left hand Ascension hanging from my left harness side when doing NCRC and other "rescue training." Typically I carry a spare Basic and can attach it to my long/locking carabiner cowstail if I really need a QAS.
fuzzy-hair-man wrote:You got in just before me NZ I was going to post about the same thread, Oh well maybe this one will be interesting, it discusses the order different bits should or could go on your mailion, it sort of deals with the same issues.
I know cavers who quite happily use a right handed upper ascender and attach it at the left hand side of thier mailon.
NZcaver wrote:fuzzy-hair-man wrote:You got in just before me NZ I was going to post about the same thread, Oh well maybe this one will be interesting, it discusses the order different bits should or could go on your mailion, it sort of deals with the same issues.
You posted that same Frog System link again there.
I think the link you meant to post is this one - Froggers: what order does every go on your mailion?
fuzzy-hair-man wrote:Like I mentioned in that thread, I find having the ascender attachment on the left hand side makes it a little easier to get tangled in rebelays as you are passing them, to a large degree I think this will depend on what you get used to though.
NZcaver wrote:fuzzy-hair-man wrote:Like I mentioned in that thread, I find having the ascender attachment on the left hand side makes it a little easier to get tangled in rebelays as you are passing them, to a large degree I think this will depend on what you get used to though.
So when you pass a rebelay on the way up, after clipping into the bolt with your cowstail do you transfer your Croll to the upper rope first, or your Ascension?
fuzzy-hair-man wrote:I transfer my Croll first then my Ascension.
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