Define a QAS

[Stridergdm]

Simple question, but I'm going to bet it'll generate some debate. Let's try to not make it personal.

What do YOU consider a QAS?
(and how does it relate to your system?)

I suspect that froggers, ropewalkers and others will have different answers and different reasons.

Thanks.

[Dwight Livingston]

I'll bite.

A QAS is a handled ascender, attached on a stout line to one's seat harness at a length within reach when hanging from it, that is exclusive of one's two primary ascenders.

Well, not elegant but it's a start.

Dwight

[Rick Brinkman]

Isn't a QAS a QAS no matter what system you are using?

Meaning: a means of attachment that is separate and in addition to, your ascending system.

I think the real debate is whether you need one with the frog system or not.


Or am I off base here?

[Evan G]

My Cuddington 3 phase uses a QAS. It is a primary safety that is used during crossovers and also when I want to phase into a texas system.

QAS=Quick Attachment Safety

Here is another thead on QAS: http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?t=2997&highlight=qas

Rick wrote:

I think the real debate is whether you need one with the frog system or not.

I have a frog, but rarely use it. A QAS can be used with many systems. But your idea would seem good for another thread.

NZ-Because of you I finally ordered two Kong Slyde for my QAS. (If he reads this thread)

[FiddleCaver]

My handled ascender serves two purposes. When I'm froggin', it is my upper ascender. When I am rigging, changing over, or looking over the edge it is my QAS.

[Dwight Livingston]

My handled ascender serves two purposes. When I'm froggin', it is my upper ascender. When I am rigging, changing over, or looking over the edge it is my QAS.

It's just that definition that causes confusion. Tell some (most?) froggers that you have a QAS, and they will expect something in addition to your upper ascender. So I tell people I don't carry a QAS, though I use my upper ascender just as you do. I think doing that is less likely to cause confusion.

[Scott McCrea]

Here's what I said in the thread Evan linked to earlier:

I like, use and advocate QAS use. But, I don't think it needs to be an extra piece of gear. QAS's are rarely necessary when climbing--on any system. They are more useful while rappelling and doing stuff around a lip. An ascender that can double as QAS is an efficient piece of gear.

Froggers can do this with an upper ascender, if they can find a way to stow it that allows for one-handed deployment and the foot loop doesn't get in the way.

My Texas system uses two handled ascenders, a left and a right. When I'm not climbing, they can be used as QAS's. I find them very useful.

Pretty much fits this thread too.

Also, the most efficient QAS can be deployed and engaged with one hand (either hand) in about 2 seconds or less, with your eyes closed, upside-down, underwater, while being chanced by vampires.

Rigging style is the main determiner of how useful a QAS is. A rig that uses rebelays and deviations to avoid all lips and rub spots will have little use for a QAS. An IRT rig with rope pads and lips is a great place for a QAS.

[hank moon]

Rigging style is the main determiner of how useful a QAS is. A rig that uses rebelays and deviations to avoid all lips and rub spots will have little use for a QAS. An IRT rig with rope pads and lips is a great place for a QAS.

Yes, as I wrote in another thread:

If you think you need to carry an extra "quick" attachment to the rope there may be aspects of your system/rigging/situation that need analysis and possible correction. Maybe the QAS is sometimes used to mitigate poor caving skills?

To which you raised the BS flag (thanks for spreading it around - love that flag). Hmmm. Are there two Scott McCrea's around here? IRT may be "trad" but it ain't too smart.

[Scott McCrea]

IRT may be "trad" but it ain't too smart.

Sounds like the start of a new thread, Hank. You can explain why you think IRT ain't smart.

[hank moon]

IRT may be "trad" but it ain't too smart.

Sounds like the start of a new thread, Hank. You can explain why you think IRT ain't smart.

It's been done to death. If you don't already know why it ain't smart to haul overkill/heavy rope, heavy descenders and ascent systems, QAS, rope pads, etc. up and down caves over and over and over again to maintain a tradition of outdated vertical technique ...well, there's nothing I can do to explain further.

TAG: a living museum of U.S. caving history. Love the place, love the people...and I can't wait for this Fall's cave-in!

Global warming: it's what makes caves faster?

P.S. Don't be such a thread nazi, dude! These BBS are so ephemeral...

[mgmills]

My handled ascender serves two purposes. When I'm froggin', it is my upper ascender. When I am rigging, changing over, or looking over the edge it is my QAS.

It's just that definition that causes confusion. Tell some (most?) froggers that you have a QAS, and they will expect something in addition to your upper ascender. So I tell people I don't carry a QAS, though I use my upper ascender just as you do. I think doing that is less likely to cause confusion.

I agree with you two.

I thought QAS simply meant Quick Attachment Safety. I use the upper assender of my frog (which is a Petzl handled ascender) to clip onto the rope when I'm rigging my rack to rappel. In some rigging situations I've also used my cowstail to clip into a rope loop while rigging my rack.

For general caving I don't usually carry a second handled ascended but do carry a loop of prusik cord in case I have an ascender malfunction. Sometimes if there are "newbies" on a trip I may bring one along in case a problem crops up where I might find a need for another ascender. I used my extra once to provide an assist for a new vertical caver at a difficult (for them) lip.

[Scott McCrea]

It's been done to death. If you don't already know why it ain't smart to haul overkill/heavy rope, heavy descenders and ascent systems, QAS, rope pads, etc. up and down caves over and over and over again to maintain a tradition of outdated vertical technique ...well, there's nothing I can do to explain further.
_snip_
These BBS are so ephemeral...

I can't wait for this Fall's cave-in!

See ya there.

[Scott McCrea]

My definition:

QAS (Quick Attachment Safety): A hands-free device connected directly to a seat harness which allows for quick and easy attachment to a rope or anchor providing stability. A QAS is most commonly a lanyard connected to a rope grab or clip.

Using this definition, cow's tails, upper ascenders, daisy chains, prusik loops, runners, etc, may all be considered QAS's.

Just about everyone in the vertical world uses a QAS. Rock climbers may clip into an anchor with a daisy chain or runner. Window washers, high-steel workers, scaffolding workers, fork-lift operators at Home Depot all use some sort of easily attachable device for security.

Cavers use many different varieties of QAS's, but they all do basically the same thing.

[George Dasher]

Does anyone else see a problem with running three threads at the same time discussing the same thing...?

[Evan G]

Using Scott's definition of the QAS:

So it seems the basic premise of the QAS is a group of items and not singular item. Thus lies the confusion.

George Dasher:

Does anyone else see a problem with running three threads at the same time discussing the same thing...?

Noticed, it is becoming as confusing as the QAS


So the way I'm personally going to look at:

Do I use a QAS? No longer, the terminology causes to much confusion and in a vertical situation could cause miscommunication. I use a “handled safety” and a “cows tail”.