Croll replacement

[Rick Brinkman]

I DO NOT recommend the Anthron. I got one a while back because it was $5 cheaper. It has a bad tendency to NOT catch onto the rope. I think that it needs more twist at the attachment point.

[caverdoc]

Rick
I'd banish that Anthron to foot ascender in a rope-walker rig. That'll teach it a lesson!

Dr K

[Rick Brinkman]

I already made a 'foot harness' for it, but haven't used it much.
I have thought about sticking in in a vice and giving it the twist that it needs...only thought about it though.

[caverdoc]

Rick
If you get hold of Joe Oliphant up in Ronan (mmmmmmm, Flathead lake) he may have a photo from our 2002 International SRT training in the Tetons, showing a Polish caver with a Croll rigged as a foot ascender.

Dr J

[Marlatt]

My frog uses the CMI Shorti, which unfortunately I don't believe is still in production. Here's a picture from Gary Storrick's Vertical Devices site (http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDev ... Home.shtml):



Mine are the original Shorti's, as shown in the top row. The Shorti is a pretty decent ascender (very wear resistant), but the safety is pretty awkward. If you tune your system properly, it works well.

Way back in my early days, I actually used a frog based on Gibbs ascenders. Being of limited resources, I wanted a system which would use the same gear that my ropewalker used. I used a free-running Gibbs on my seat harness, with a bungee clipped to the cam lanyard and run over my shoulder. My foot ascender used a spring-loaded Gibbs. Obviously, it was slow to get on/off rope, but it climbed very well.

swm

[GoHighGoDeep]

I've heard of people filing down the top few points on the cam of the croll to make it less likely to catch when you've thumbed it down. I'm not sure I'd recommend doing this, buuuut just putting the potential out there...

As for downclimbing, there's nothing that will teach you about using your system better than learning to downclimb on it. I've been known to downclimb short pitches in caves if the only descender I have with me is a rack... plus there's always the 'emergency use' factor: you can downclimb a weighted rope, you can't rapell on it though.

[hank moon]

I've heard of people filing down the top few points on the cam of the croll to make it less likely to catch when you've thumbed it down. I'm not sure I'd recommend doing this, buuuut just putting the potential out there...

Avoid "thumbing" the Croll and use the index finger to keep the teeth away from the rope. Works very well (unless you have sausage fingers). Snagging not a problem.

As for downclimbing, there's nothing that will teach you about using your system better than learning to downclimb on it. I've been known to downclimb short pitches in caves if the only descender I have with me is a rack... plus there's always the 'emergency use' factor: you can downclimb a weighted rope, you can't rapell on it though.

One of the nice features of a rack is that it can be used to rappel a loaded rope...

[Scott McCrea]

One of the nice features of a rack is that it can be used to rappel a loaded rope...

But, don't try it unless you have practiced in a controlled environment and know what is going to happen. It can be very dangerous.

[paul]

As I am fairly unfamiliar with using racks, how do you abseil on a loaded rope (other than very carefully) using one?

[hank moon]

As I am fairly unfamiliar with using racks, how do you abseil on a loaded rope (other than very carefully) using one?

i think you've got it with the italics. Lolo bar count. I've never done it underground - only under controlled conditions (i.e. indoors) with a 250# load on the rope.

[Seamus Decker]

This is a bit tangential to the topic of this thread, but since there are some verti-gurus in here, I'm curious to hear what you all will answer to this question: what is the most compact/lightweight but also versatile and safe SRT kit (for use in mostly long horiztonal caves with remote pits)?

I caved quite a bit in TAG and used a Frog with the croll, Petzl harness, hand jammer combo. I'm just getting back into caving, and probably should throw away and replace all my old vertical gear. I'll likely replace the frog system for truly vertical caves.

However, during my last five years of active caving (1998 to 2003) I got mostly into Kentucky/CRF survey work. There are pits of up to ~150 feet, but that is rare. In fact, pits of 50 feet are fairly uncommon, and long trips on the order of miles to get to pits are common.

Just about the time I got inactive (2003) we were all sort of challenging each other to who could come up with the most compact, lightweight, versatile (as in faster to put on rope that knots) and safe rig. I think my buddy Pete Zabrok who is an El Cap aid climber probably won the prize.

His rig was a frog with a croll chest with elastic cord for a chest harness. and a hand jammer for the foot sling (prolly a petzl IIRC). Sit harness was a loop of 1" tubular webbing with a D-loop closure. Can't recall if the loop was sewn or tied, but getting rid of knots reduces quite a bit of bulk. All his slings were sewn stuff chosen from his aid climbing kit rather than using tied pieces (eliminating bulk from knots). For abseiling, we all used a small/medium pear shaped steel locking carabiner with an R-knot (muenter hitch).

[Tim White]

Seamus- A very good question. So good, in fact that I am going to start a new topic. I see this may generate a lot of informative post.

See new topic: What's the most compact/lightweight SRT rig?

[Seamus Decker]

Cool, thanks Tim :)