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So after looking at the chest boxes being discussed in the "Corrosive sweat" thread I noticed Gary Storrick's webpage has the sentence:

Double channel boxes are used for the Mitchell System and its extension, the Cuddington 3-Phase.

I've never heard of a Cuddington 3-Phase before so:
What is a Cuddington 3-Phase?
How does it differ from a Mitchel?

PS: Google only finds Gary's webpage.

I've never heard of a Cuddington 3-Phase before so:
What is a Cuddington 3-Phase?
How does it differ from a Mitchel?

I think it is similar to the ascending system I use. It is a hybrid between a ropewalker, frog, and Mitchell. It is a Mitchell with a small floating knee cam on a quick bungee. The bungee is attached to the back of the Chest harness or the front. The seat harness is only used with the locking cows tail and mini ascender combo. The chest harness is the backbone of the ascending system. So the chest box has to be bomber, such as: PMI chest box, Blum box, & F-Box.

It is not as fast as the ropewalker nor as light as the frog. However, it is far faster than the frog and far more efficient. It has the versatility of the frog in that it is easy to change from rebelay to a Tyrolean to ascending, etc. It does take a lot of practice to get use to it. I think that why it never caught on and it is not cheap to build.

So 1 ascender above the chest box and one below and another ascender mounted at the knee ?

So it looks like: (image from Vertical and modified)


Does the knee mounted one ever interfere with the ascender below the chest box?

Is there still the long foot loop to the upper ascender ? if so do you just kick this off?

So 1 ascender above the chest box and one below and another ascender mounted at the knee ?

Yes, the left foot knee cam is attached to a foot harness and bungee. The Upper haddled acender above the chest box is attached to Right foot harness via a 8mm rope that runs through the chest box. Remember we are not talking about footloops and chicken loops, they are full on foot harness on both feet. You can hang from them upside down.

Does the knee mounted one ever interfere with the ascender below the chest box?

The saftey ascender is only used in rebelays, crossovers, changeovers. It is attached to your seat harness via 8mm rope, but it usually stays on a gear loop on the seat harness. Use when needed.

Wow, if the Picture is the cuddington it looks like a mess. Apline Cavers modified it long ago.

kver33 wrote:Wow, if the Picture is the cuddington it looks like a mess. Apline Cavers modified it long ago.

Nah I couldn't find anything about the Cuddington, it's a picture of a mitchel, I grabbed the image and edited it so you sort of knew what I was trying to say.

So two ascenders and a chest box on rope and the other ascender is a QAS of sorts.

So the knee ascender is not attached to the harness at all? hence the full on foot harness?

So the knee ascender is not attached to the harness at all? hence the full on foot harness?

You are correct the knee ascender is not attached at all to the harness. And yes, hence the full on foot harness.

Nah I couldn't find anything about the Cuddington, it's a picture of a mitchel, I grabbed the image and edited it so you sort of knew what I was trying to say.

There is way too much going on in that mitchell system.

=================================

If you want to make this system into a Texas system you just put on your saftey, pop out of the chest box and remove the knee cam off rope and your in Texas mode.

Crossover is very easy, just put your safety on the other rope put your weight on it. Move over the top ascender then chest box then bottom ascender. Then start climbing and on the way pull your saftey.

According to On Rope, revised edition, page 147, the Cuddington 3-Phase is a Mitchell System with a QAS. The first phase is the normal Mitchell set up. Second phase uses only the lower ascender and the QAS to form a Texas system for short and/or sloped drops. Third phase is used mostly on slopes--remove ropes/lanyards from the chest box, attach the QAS to the long lanyard of the upper ascender forming an attachment point from the upper ascender to the harness thus lessening the potential for a heel-hang, with the lower ascender used as normal.

The nice thing about this system is it quickly and easily adaptable to just about any situation, and it's quite efficient. I think if the double chest roller wasn't so bulky and expensive, a lot more people would use this system.

Scott has it dead on.
This is the system I used from about 1977-1993, when I switched to a frog. I'm so freaking top-heavy (46"chest, 40" waist) that lately I've been considering returning to the Cuddington 3-phase/Mitchell.
Especiallyl since I have an uncorroded Fritzke box!
Dr J

I don't use the frog because of being "top-heavy". While practicing vertical and using different rigs I noticed the frog was uncomfortable for me because I always wanted to fall back. I almost always use a Texas(sit-stand)system or a ropewalker. The Cuddington system is kind of the best of both, huh?

Scott McCrea wrote:According to On Rope, revised edition, page 147, the Cuddington 3-Phase is a Mitchell System with a QAS. The first phase is the normal Mitchell set up. Second phase uses only the lower ascender and the QAS to form a Texas system for short and/or sloped drops. Third phase is used mostly on slopes--remove ropes/lanyards from the chest box, attach the QAS to the long lanyard of the upper ascender forming an attachment point from the upper ascender to the harness thus lessening the potential for a heel-hang, with the lower ascender used as normal.

The nice thing about this system is it quickly and easily adaptable to just about any situation, and it's quite efficient. I think if the double chest roller wasn't so bulky and expensive, a lot more people would use this system.

For those, like myself, searching the first edition, see pg. 163, where it is described as the Mitchell 3-phase system.

Bill

An hour ago I posted something on the "advice about the ropewalker thread" that also seems to apply directly to this thread. Scott is absolutely correct about the Mitchell 3-phase. I have been consulting with Dick Mitchell (the inventor)about the viability of the Mitchell system with modern rigging. For detailed information about the Frog and it effectiveness with different body types (for you barrel chested cavers) you might want to access the NSS vertical section publication: Nylon Highway. The latest edition (#53) has my article on this topic. It also has a detailed analysis of the effectiveness of the Mitchell system compared to the Frog system in Alpine SRT rigging conditions. Hopefully this will clear up some of the misunderstandings posted previously. You have to join the vertical section to gain access to the PDF files, but it’s free and carries no obligations.

Go to: http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nylhi.html

Welcome to Cavechat, John! It's always good to see more knowledgeable vertical cavers here.

Those articles look great. I have only skimmed them (I'll read after the kids are in bed), but they look full of great info. Some neat stuff about the Mitchell System that I have never tried. Each article is probably worthy of it's own thread.

For my long drops I use a modified Mitchell which I've dubbed the Texas Frog Walker.
It is a regular Mitchell with a Croll in between the seat harness and chest harness.
It allows me to ropewalk or sit-stand. I have the bottom ascender at about knee level
and is tied to the seat harness as well. Given that I am short and stout (little teapot,
heh), it is about the most efficient system (for me and my build) that I've used.

I have a seperate QAS, and when I get to a lip I switch to Texas with it. The nice thing
is that I take the top half of the system off and I have my regular Texas system, so it nicely
covers the bulk of my vertical caving (long drops TAG style, or deep in cave shorter drops).

Frog is almost as much work as the Texas for my body build, and the Texas is much easier
to use in the caves I regularly visit.

Post deleted.

I have to agree with Gary, I’ve used the Mitchell system with an old Blue water box for almost 20 years until I wore out my Jumars. It is a very versatile system and works very well for long free drops, climbs against the wall, and in crossing rebelays. I think it is much more efficient than the frog system if rigged correctly. I’m surprised that I don’t see it used more often. I think that the only place I’ve seen the system referred to as the Cuddington Three Phase system was in Halliday’s book.

Geary Schindel