Caving harness and rapelling

[brrrdog]

Hello Cavers - Long time reader, first time poster.

I've just scratched the surface of vertical caving so at this point I'm just trying to understand some of the basics. The first thing to start with is the harness. My above ground decents are a handful of figure 8 rappels with a standard climbing harness, and my first below ground descent was with that same gear. I've noticed the lower tie-in on the caving harnesses. I can see the advantage with frogging but I wonder about descents. Does a chest harness become mandatory with such a rig (ignoring a change-over possilbilty for now)? I'm assuming it would be pretty easy to end up upside-down on a rappel without one. Or is this not true?

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Your right the caving harnesses lower attachment point is to make frogging more efficient.

On the rappel the lower attachment point generally does not cause problems in my experience but from memory some more top heavy cavers on this board have reported some uneasyness / problems. Try it out safely in practice with a bottom or top belay and see what you think if it is a problem for you then you can get a chest harness / roller or many use a carabiner clipped into thier chest harness and then onto the rope above the descender.

[Stridergdm]

Personally I have not had a problem with the lower attachment point on a frogging harness. But then again I'm thigh heavy.

However for my children I did purchase full-body harnesses (for general rope stuff, they're a bit too young for actually ascending/descending on their own) because children are definitely top heavy AND don't have much of a hip.

If you want something lightweight, just size a piece of webbing to go around the shoulders and meet in front with a carabiner. Not exactly life-support, but clipping the biner around the rope should work enough to keep you vertical.

[mgmills]

Hello Cavers - Long time reader, first time poster.

Does a chest harness become mandatory with such a rig (ignoring a change-over possilbilty for now)? I'm assuming it would be pretty easy to end up upside-down on a rappel without one. Or is this not true?

I started vertical caving in a climbing harness and ropewalker . . . I later switched to a frog. I generally rappel with my chest harness attached but not tightened up. I can, if I try, flip almost upside down but unless I'm acutally trying don't feel "tippy". As a 50ish female caver who is not large breasted my weight is concentrated in the hip area so this may be a factor.

That said, I've seen really top heavy people at training sessions almost go over backwards with a climbing type harness.

As a previous posted mentioned - try it out in practice and adjust your system as needed.

[cavemanjonny]

I'm not particularly top heavy, but I will generally try to lower my center of gravity, or keep it as close to the rope as possible, just in case. I usually clip my pack into my maillon and hang it below me on rappel, especially if it's heavy. I suppose that this introduces the potentialy dangerous possibility of having my pack tether get tangled in the rope below me, but it has so far not been an issue.

I would honestly rather deal with a tangled pack tether than going upside down because of being top heavy, however.

[brrrdog]

Thanks all, that helps a lot.

B