Vertical confession

[cob]

2 lessons here: #1- a bottom belay is very dangerous in many circumstances.

And yet bottom belays have provided an effective safety measure in many other circumstances, and have even saved lives.

I don't mean to pick apart the situation you described, but obviously the bottom belay was a well-intentioned reaction to something going wrong. Now I wouldn't want to try catching an air-rappeller myself, but is it possible the person on rope might have suffered more extensive injuries if the person at the bottom hadn't cushioned her fall? (I'm not saying this might be an additional "benefit" to having a bottom belay! I'm just thinking out loud.)

not saying otherwise NZ, not saying otherwise. But what is the first rule of rescue? Don't become a victim. That is all. And, I am only pointing out the inherent dangers of a bottom belay. In the above example... if he had been hurt as well.... what then? She would climb out alone, then crawl the 1 1/2 miles to the vehicle, and then drive the 10 miles to help....?

All too often, cavers will put themselves in a position of danger to "save" the "endangered" among us... not least myself. I am forever subject to the "White Knight" syndrome, even when it is not the smart thing to do.

My point comes down to this: If you need a bottom belay (a common practice) maybe you shouldn't be there?


tom

ps: I realize this is a hard point to argue... but think about it.

[Ralph E. Powers]

Here is a copy/paste of an short article where a bottom belay prevented the first (caver) fatality in Utah...

Accident at Candlelight Cave
Dec. 28, 1992
By Rodney Mulder (Wasatch Grotto)

On Trip: Rodney Mulder, Wayne Bodily, Ben Bodily, Briton Barker, Darrin Nilsson, Clair Call, Alan Bartholomew, and John Flaker.

I told Wayne all about the discovery of Candlelight Cave, so he and I were very anxious to return to further investigate. I bummed a ride with him in Salt Lake and we were on our way along with Ben and Briton. Ironically, Darrin had linked up with Clair Call and planned a trip to see it the same day. I talked them into meeting us so we could work as one group.

Everyone was excited to see this new cave, so we rigged my 300 foot rope around a tree and over six long planks. I was first to descend, followed by Darrin. We were sitting in the drift when John got on rope. Wayne yelled down the pit "On rope, On belay?". To belay a person had been an unusual practice to us, to our shame. But fortunately for us, and especially for John, Wayne (Captain Safety) was on the ball. He had noticed John didn't have enough bars on his rack to safely descend on rope, and of course he said something about it. John did nothing about it. Since Wayne had yelled for a belay, I double-checked his request by yelling back-"You want a belay?". His response was "Hell Yes, they're free aren't they!" (see related story in the December 1991 issue). I felt a little stupid for asking such a question, so I put my gloves on, picked up the rope, and sat myself down in a comfortable anchoring position. Less than two seconds later, near disaster. Darrin and I both heard an unfamiliar and freaky scream. But it wasn't John, it was the rope. John had went into a high speed free fall and his rack was screaming down the rope. John was only 20-feet down when he picked up uncontrollable speed, and was continuing to build up speed as he fell down the 220-foot pit. I didn't hear anyone yelling for help, no one yelled "falling!", they were too stunned. John was watching his life, and the walls of the pit pass before him. I could not see John, and a dozen thoughts of what that noise could be ran through my head, When the thought of him falling came to me, it was instinct, I pulled as hard as I could, held it and watched. Booml He fell hitting his back against the pit wall/drift and floor. It didn't seem as though the belay slowed him down, but it did pull him into the passage enough to where he didn't continue his flight downward. He hit hard, but he was so overwhelmed with the thought of dying, that the fall really didn't phase him, as far as we know.

This incident was very awakening. We almost had the worst caving accident in Utah history happen right under our noses.

When I pulled on the rope, he didn't seem to slow down at all, and the thought occurred to me that he wasn't going to make it. It was only after this incident that I learned you can't belay a rack from below, I suppose he had a miracle coming to him.

Several points need to be brought up here: First the rack is very dangerous if not used properly. The rope must be attached the correct way, no second chances if you screw this one up. Secondly, you must start off with an excessive amount of bars locked and then decrease the number needed, especially when you have a large spacer. Thirdly and perhaps most important, no one is too good to be belayed. Accidents happen!

Understand that the cave intersects a mine shaft 95 feet down it's 220 foot depth, cavers rappel down the shaft and (the first one anyway) swings in and ties the rope off (now on bolted anchors). The other cavers rappel down and are "pulled into" the mine drift/side of the shaft.
For visual pictures of this see my webpage (below) and look up Candlelight Cave and go to the Timpanogos Grotto's (Utah) on this server under History (in left frame).

This incident happened a little over 14 years ago... training policies and common practices were changed to accomidate the knowledge gained from this near fatal incident.
Provide bottom belays when-ever possible and whenever requested.
As I mentioned, I'll give a bottom belay as far away from the rock-fall zone as I can but if someone asks for it ... they'll get it.

[paul]

That example and some of the others could have been prevented by sticking to a simple rule:

Before descending (or passing rebelays etc)
First thing to attach: Cowstail (or QAS as often used over there in US!).
Last thing to remove: Cowstail (or QAS).

Anytime I have had instruction from recognised caving instructors here in the UK I have been told that the bottom belay is a bad idea.

The reasons have already been covered in previous postings - but the main points are that if a caver does plummet unexpectedly then the bottom belayer is in a dangerous position espcially if they are not able to stop them in time.

There are two a number of causes of out of control descent: incorrectly attaching the descender, equipment failure or being knocked unconcious.

The sort of accidents where descenders are incorrectly installed, carabiners attachig thm to the harness come undone, etc should be prevented by only unclipping the cowstail once the descender has been weighted, unlocked (you do lock your descender while manouevering onto the rope, I hope) AND the threading checked by lowering an inch or two.

If a caver plummets because they have been knocked unconcious, or the rope breaks or there is some other equipment failure so that the caver is no longer attached to the descender which is also attached correctly to the rope, then a belayer at the bottom can do nothing and is in a dangerous position as whatever struck the descnding caver may also hit them, or the falling caver may fall on top of them.

Anyway, that is the way I have been taught, over quite a few years.

If somebody is learning to abseil then to provide protection it is safer to belay from above with a separate rope. That should be done on the surface, under controlled conditions on a relatively short drop (which will prevent ropes getting tangled). If they are not experienced enough to abseil underground without some sort of belay, then maybe they need more practice and experience on the surface, first.

[George Dasher]

Back when I was an EMT and paramedic, I had this theory that I didn't need to know how to drive the ambulance. Someone else could do it. I was the aide.

The bottom line is that I was a weak person on the team. Sometimes you just have to be able to do "other" jobs.

So I learned to drive the ambulance (there wasn't a whole lot to it).

That's the same thing with rigging. You need to know how to rig (at least the basic stuff). Otherwise, you're a weak person on the team.

[Ralph E. Powers]

<snip>
If a caver plummets because they have been knocked unconcious, or the rope breaks or there is some other equipment failure so that the caver is no longer attached to the descender which is also attached correctly to the rope,

Under those circumstances... I think a bottom belay is the least of the caver's worries. If a caver is knocked unconcious then the bottom belayer can still function.
Bottom belayers have the responsibility to be alert and attentative to what's going on with the caver on rope (and around them), they should be prepared to react instantaneously to whatever happens.
When I'm training beginners I usually have two ropes going down the drop (wide enough) and I'm attached to them via qas and a bottom belay (for them) and we go slow and easy the first couple of times down. I mean... what's the rush right?

Cave safety = common sense and sensible practices.

[cob]

Cave safety = common sense and sensible practices.

Ralph,

wasn't trying to start an argument (still not) but I have always taught rope work as "you are on your own" because all too often their ain't no help. Over the years I have given many bottom belays... and always wondered about the wisdom of it.

Another example of the "you are on your own, get used to it" attitude I have:
Some years ago I rigged Gollandrinas for some folks. I could have easily rigged it so people didn't have to deal with the rope weight at the lip. But 30 feet down, they would have been well beyond the reach of my help... on their own, and if they couldn't deal with it then... then what?

One gal did not have the upper body strength to untie her rack(with the full rope weight)... after 2 attempts I told her she couldn't do the pit. Broke her heart (and mine), but the next morning she and I drank a cup of Mexican coffee together.

Maybe all would have gone great, and she would have a great memory... but if all had gone to hell in a handbasket...? She would not now hold the child she gave birth to 6 mos ago. I had no regrets then, and have none now.

I am not saying there is not a time and a place for a bottom belay...
Just that they should be very few, and very far between.

tom

[Ralph E. Powers]

Cave safety = common sense and sensible practices.

Ralph,

wasn't trying to start an argument (still not) but I have always taught rope work as "you are on your own" because all too often their ain't no help. Over the years I have given many bottom belays... and always wondered about the wisdom of it.

Another example of the "you are on your own, get used to it" attitude I have:
Some years ago I rigged Gollandrinas for some folks. I could have easily rigged it so people didn't have to deal with the rope weight at the lip. But 30 feet down, they would have been well beyond the reach of my help... on their own, and if they couldn't deal with it then... then what?

One gal did not have the upper body strength to untie her rack(with the full rope weight)... after 2 attempts I told her she couldn't do the pit. Broke her heart (and mine), but the next morning she and I drank a cup of Mexican coffee together.

Maybe all would have gone great, and she would have a great memory... but if all had gone to hell in a handbasket...? She would not now hold the child she gave birth to 6 mos ago. I had no regrets then, and have none now.

I am not saying there is not a time and a place for a bottom belay...
Just that they should be very few, and very far between.

tom

Tom, on that I agree, which is why a trip-leader should be wise in deciding who goes and who does not on a particular trip. I choose based on their abilities rather their personalities. Example; a very lovely young girl showed up at our Grotto meeting, you know the type; the girl that every (guy) is looking at instead of the presentation. She approached me and asked if she could go on a particular trip that I was leading.
I asked her if she had the preresquite gear/training to do the cave... she didn't... I told her to wait and get the gear and the training that goes with it and to do some easier ones first before tackling this particular one. She looked miffed and disappointed but her eyes lit up when I promised a training trip later on the following weekend.
Another scenario, I led a trip to a vertical cave where some friends of mine were wanting to do. I knew all but (another) lovely young woman who joined them. I was assurred again and again that she gotten the training needed. Knowing my friends and their experience I trusted their word. I also still called for a bottom belay when it was her turn to get on rope (I was to be last). She got it.
She slipped as soon as she stepped off the edge (easy to do with this cave) and the bottom belay caught her before she fell a couple of inches. My friend (her date) looked at me with sincerest silent gratitude after she righted herself and continued on down with her rappel.

A time and a place and the good judgement to know when (and how) to use it.

[paul]

<snip>
If a caver plummets because they have been knocked unconcious, or the rope breaks or there is some other equipment failure so that the caver is no longer attached to the descender which is also attached correctly to the rope,

Under those circumstances... I think a bottom belay is the least of the caver's worries. If a caver is knocked unconcious then the bottom belayer can still function.

That's the point - What knocked them unconcious? If it was a falling rock, then you are also a target.

Cave safety = common sense and sensible practices.

I'll agree with you there!

[Tim White]

Certification and insurance is .

This started is a thread regarding rigging.
I'll be happy to move/split certification and insurance into another thread if folks want to continue that topic of discussion.

[George Dasher]

Heck. I thought the lengthy bottom belay discussion was off thread.

[Tim White]

Heck. I thought the lengthy bottom belay discussion was off thread.

Yea, me too. But I was out of the office (at Bridge Day) when it moved in that direction.

[George Dasher]

I was at Bridge Day.

We put tour kayaks in at Hawks Nest and paddled up to the bridge and looked at the goings-on.