Unexpected rescues?

[cob]

Hank,
Thanks for the pointer, after some deciphering I think this is what I was after.

someone correct me if I'm reading these diagrams wrong)
The diagrams seems to say ....James

hunter, I think the second part of what you said is a bit out...

the manuals mention testing on fall factor 1 and 0.5 with a 80kg weight. I think the kN forces you quote are the forces expecienced by the load. ie this is trying to put numbers to how much the ascender will act as a shock absobing device given a dynamic load....

Guys, I (and everybody else too) can do the math... But what I (and I suspect many others) would like to know...

Ok, that is not necesarily a fair representation... FOR ME... My reading of all this is... that no one here would choose to use...

All right, start over: Let's make it simple: What gear would you carry (these days my truck is generally within a mile of the cave) for a rescue?

2nd question: What gear would you take deep within a cave (thinking "rescue?")?

The Idea is, "here is my climbing system, suddenly it has to be adapted for a rescue": one size fits all (excepting rope for haul systems, belays, etc)? Keep it basic, keep it simple. An extra ascender or pulley thrown into the pack. Think of it as "We are on our own, "Rescue" is not an option."

tom

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Well, I haven't much (any) practical experience at rescues, so what I say may have limited value.

I think if this is a 'just in case' / self rescue measure then it needs to be:
# Light weight (otherwise it won't get taken)
# Multipurpose (so you don't need to take more gear)
# A contribution to a rescue kit (no one person takes the whole kit)
# As fail safe as possible (cos Murphy's law means it's going to be the wrong circumstances when you actually need it)

So given that I'd be taking:
Replace my brake crab with a big 40kN steel rescue crab
(multi purpose and I can safely descend without a brake crab if need be)
tiblocs x 2 (to swap on to my ascenders or use on the Z rig these will grip in all conditions)
A metal sheathed pulley or mini traxion. (I don't like the plastic ones)
I'd also have some prusik loops hanging around in case they were useful. (always a good idea)

The single most important thing to my mind for self or party rescue is that at least a couple of people know how to and can perform a pick-off. Typically I would make sure one of these people goes up the rope first and the other is the last to go up the rope, this way if the victim is close to the top they can be rescued from the top if necessary or if communication with the bottom is difficult and can also be rescued from below. Ideally every one would know how to do a pick off but that's probably not going to happen. I would also add that it is good if each of the 'rescue' cavers know their capabilities regarding a pick-off ie how heavy a caver can you perform a pick-off on ?

The reason I consider the pick off important is that hauling mostly takes place after a pick-off has been performed, the initial response should be to get them off rope as quickly and safely as possible (HHS calls for less than 10 minutes? ).

To illustrate: In the article "Self rescue 101: Avoiding the call-out" which we were discussing before if only one of the three knew how to do a pick-off the situation could have been avoided. (OK the situation could have been avoided if they knew how to use their gear correctly ie attach roller or if they though about it a bit more)
The caver at the top could have down prusiked to the stranded caver and performed a pick-off, the caver not on rope could have ascended past the stranded caver and performed a pick-off, or at a pinch the stranded caver presuming they have their wits about them still could have explained a pick-off to one of the other cavers(not ideal).

It is a given that not all cavers will have the strength to perform a pick-off but I think they should be familiar with the basics of it, and if they are not strong enough they can carry a light weight jigger (couple of light pulleys not necessarily climbing rated because the stranded caver should be tethered to the rescuer by cows-tails) this can help the rescuer get enough weight off the chest ascender to perform the pick off. I have also been trying to think off a combination of cowtails and possibly extra crabs that might do this as well there just doesn't seem to be enough length in the long cowtail though

So if necessary I'd also include this jigger in the rescue kit.

In Australia the standard ascending rig is a frog so pickoffs can be a bit simpler as you should be familiar with the gear the other caver is using.

[Scott McCrea]

Have you ever done or ever heard of a successful 'for real' pick-off being done in a cave? Lowering a stuck caver is also good option, if prepared for it.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Have you ever done or ever heard of a successful 'for real' pick-off being done in a cave? Lowering a stuck caver is also good option, if prepared for it.

Me? No not yet thank goodness but we periodically practice just in case.
I may have heard of one, I can't quite remember.... Again rigging style comes into this a pickoff would be easier I imagine on a free hanging pitch such as you'd find when rigging with rebelays and redirects.

Lowering.. If you mean lowering as in the "Rescue 101" article our rigging doesn't really allow for it, rebelays etc, It would depend on circumstances but a pickoff would normally be my first approach to a rescue. If you are lowering with a person(s) attached any rub points are going become more of an issue although I guess this will be spread all along the rope and not just in a single spot so you are unlikely to wear through the rope.

Also generally we try to take a rope that is the same length as the pitch (with some extra for knots and rebelays etc) this doesn't leave any to play with for lowering.

[Scott McCrea]

As far as I know, 'for real' pick-offs are pretty rare. Assists are more common. Like you said, HHS is a real threat to an unconscious caver. I think that in a for real situation, doing a pick-off in less than 10 minutes would be very difficult. For one, whatever conditions caused the person to get in trouble will probably still be there for the rescuer to deal with.

The pick-off is a valuable skill, but don't count on it always being an option.

[Ralph E. Powers]

I've only done one for-real pick off in my 16+years of vertical caving. Fortunately it was during a practice session at a popular pit and the guy wasn't too high off the ground.
I personally always have a small pulley and some cordage to perform a pick off and have a modest-first-aid kit ... in my experience that's basically all you need for "self-rescues"... if you gotta go beyond that... send two guys out to get help because if it's gonna take more than what you got on you and you try it, you run the risk of joining your injured/stuck caving buddy.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I have seen several pickoffs in the gym where we practice, this is more a case of the practicing caver gets tired and frustrated and it is the best option rather than them struggling and getting no where and then giving up on vertical. Again this is practicing rebelays. Change overs and knot crossings are the only other moves which have much danger of getting stuck and newbies practice them close to the ground where they can stand on shoulders etc.

The pick-off is a valuable skill, but don't count on it always being an option.

There are two situations I can see where a pickoff is not going to work:
1. a tight pitch where it is impossible to pass stranded caver going up. There is the possibility of a caver coming down from above and clipping into the stranded caver and hauling them up OH MY ACHING LEGS!! or clip an ascender in and pull a bit of rope up and then tie a knot in the slack and use the knot to pull the caver up (1 ascender is not considered safe hence the knot) if they are the last caver they should have derigged below otherwise there will be someone below to derig for you.
You might be able to use this to pull them clear of the tight spot and then do a pickoff ?

2. The stranded climber is the last up the pitch and the rope is held very tightly against the rock by the stranded cavers weight, preventing any climbers coming down to perform a rescue.

Both situations would illustrate why you'd sent an experienced caver up first and last. Assume there are rebelays and the first situation would likely be a difficult one for any rescue especially if it was the first caver going out that had the problem. Maybe no one could get out to go for help?

The second one is easily solved with a second rope if you've got one. Also it worth noting using strict alpine technique the rope shouldn't touch the rock so this situation wouldn't occur. In practice here it does a bit where rub won't cause damage

In some situations (no spare rope) I'd see a pickoff or haul up as the only options ? or am I missing something. Maybe having the gear to convert a frog to a Mao(pulley system giving a mechanical advantage to frogging) system is worthwhile to let you haul up some pretty heavy loads ?

[NZcaver]

Coincidentally, I was just playing with this stuff yesterday (in-cave small party rescue techniques, that is).

Well, I haven't much (any) practical experience at rescues, so what I say may have limited value.

I think if this is a 'just in case' / self rescue measure then it needs to be:
# Light weight (otherwise it won't get taken)
# Multipurpose (so you don't need to take more gear)
# A contribution to a rescue kit (no one person takes the whole kit)
# As fail safe as possible (cos Murphy's law means it's going to be the wrong circumstances when you actually need it)

So given that I'd be taking:
Replace my brake crab with a big 40kN steel rescue crab
(multi purpose and I can safely descend without a brake crab if need be)
tiblocs x 2 (to swap on to my ascenders or use on the Z rig these will grip in all conditions)
A metal sheathed pulley or mini traxion. (I don't like the plastic ones)
I'd also have some prusik loops hanging around in case they were useful. (always a good idea)

<snip>

I like your thinking. You've obviously been reading the right material, and listening to the right people. Do you own a copy of Alpine Caving Techniques? If not, put it on your Christmas list.

I'm not convinced the merits of taking a big steel carabiner caving with me outweigh the... er, weight. But it could have some benefits, particularly in a heavy-wear situation or when it might suffer some abnormal loading - like across an edge. To each their own.

Pack a couple of Prusik cords and extra carabiners of course, and maybe a Tibloc or Ropeman if you have one. A few small (preferably stainless) maillons make handy extras too. Carrying a pulley or two is a must, but I'd stick with the lighter nylon-sheaved ones. They're cheap and they work fine for small haul systems and counterbalances. The only time I've seen the nylon ones "die" is when people melt flat spots in the sheave by speeding down zip lines.

Do you use cord or webbing (tape) for your footloops? I use 5.5mm Spectra cord, which I've found more useful/efficient than webbing for "other things" - like modifying your Frog to a Mao (counterbalance) system.

Regarding pickoffs - no, they are not common occurrences thankfully. But that's no reason not to practice techniques. One of the best ways to avoid having to do one, I've found, is to help teach/coach newer vertical cavers before they attempt any caving beyond their ability.

Another good skill to practice is assisting a partially-injured caver to move him/herself up a rope. Example - one of your companions breaks his arm, so you modify his system. By climbing above him, you can help boost each torso lift while operating his handled ascender with a short cord. Then you have to figure out how to help them over the edge at the top - or past a rebelay. If anything, it's probably more likely you will come across this type of situation than one requiring a "standard" pickoff.

[cob]

Have you ever done or ever heard of a successful 'for real' pick-off being done in a cave? Lowering a stuck caver is also good option, if prepared for it.

On one Lech expedition I was on, a Canadian took a fall down in the Southwest branch busting a couple of ribs. He was able to walk/crawl/climb back to Boulder Falls (could not have been fun going thru the Rift). He started to climb up BF's but about halfway up he just could not go further. Art Fortini performed "the most beautiful" pick-off Rick Haley had ever seen. I don't recall how long it took, but I was told it was fast.

One last note: Art was about 140 lbs, the Canadian (as I recall) about 200.

tom

[cob]

... in my experience that's basically all you need for "self-rescues"... if you gotta go beyond that... send two guys out to get help because if it's gonna take more than what you got on you and you try it, you run the risk of joining your injured/stuck caving buddy.

Ralph, while a call out is ideal, the scenarios I have in mind are ones where a "rescue call out" is not an option. The time involved in a call out means the caver in trouble is going to die. I know of one pit in Arkansas that is 7-8 hours from the entrance for a 4 man team. A full call out would take even longer to get back to the pit (more people=more time) If one made a full call out it would take a minimum of 30 hours for a rescue team to reach the pit, plus there would be the added danger of a rescuer getting stuck in the crawl (it is that tight in spots) which would make everything worse...
30+ hours at the bottom of that pit (wet and muddy) means the injured caver is dead. Getting him/her out now, is the only option.
Hence the gear for "deep in cave rescue" quetion.

The other scenario is Mexico. There is a place down there I love called the "El Abra". It is a 12 hr drive from the highway (civilization) to the trail head, than an 8 hr hike back to the pits (Cuesta & Estrella). Getting rescue competent people with rescue capable gear together and back to the pit from time of initiation would take... How many days?
Hence the "gear in truck" question.

Sometimes, we are on our own. tom

[Tim White]

Contents of Rescue Bag that is always in the truck or van on a cave or climbing trip:

3 sets - prusiks
3 - 2â€

[chh]

During any vertical trip I carry 2 CMI micro pulleys, 2 different lengths of prussik cord, 2 spare lockers. All of this hangs in a little bundle off one of the biners on my left side. Enough to ascend the rope if both my mechanicals fail (or are being used in another application), and to make a haul system. The chest harness for my frogger is made of 1" tube tape and has an oval biner on it. These can also be used if I take the adjustable closure on my cave pack off and use it to hold my croll upright.

In addition, a 20 foot and 15 foot section of additional tube tape, 2 lockers, a small med kit, a multi tool, duct tape, and some chemical heat packs live in the bottom of my cave pack, which I always carry regardless of the type of trip.

With some creativity I think these materials would get you out of a bind. And when contributed to the rest of the group, I don't think we'd be wanting for much. One of my regular caving partners has a mini traxion which he usually carries on vertical trips, along with a few spare biners. I once hauled 700 feet of water logged rope and some miscenllaneous personal gear out of a pit with the mini traxion. It made things that much easier. A haul system goes together in no time at all with one of those things. I don't imagine I'd carry it all the time though, however, if the location was very remote with no chance of additional help or evac, and there was a lot of vertical work involved, I would probably take it as added "insurance" as well as a buffed up med kit on the surface if you were within 12-18 hours "rescue time" from the surface, or camp, or wherever the rest of your resources are centralized.

[chh]

my post above was regular vertical trips in the states. I guess the short answer for remote expeditions would be "everything". ;)

[cob]

One possible technique I have heard of which seems like it would work in certain situations (within limits):

The injured caver is at the bottom. Clip a pulley to his sit harness with a loop of rope passed thru it and tied to a caver on rope above him. A roller box on his chest would be necessary to keep the injured caver vertical. This gives the "hauler" a 2-1 advantage, and when he gets to the top, the "load" is passed to the team waiting at the top, and they all can haul the injured caver (who is now at the halfway point) the rest of the way up. Having hauled 40-50 lb packs up Boulder Falls I am confident that I (at that point in time anyway) could haul a 150-160 lb caver up a 2-300 ft. pit that way.

Obviously enuf, this would not work in a situation where rebelays and knots are crossed. The caver doing the hauling would have to be strong enuf (if he got stuck...), and it would definitely take more time than using a z-rig... but sometimes a z-rig is not an option either.

tom

[chh]

Hmmm. I'd never considered that. That could work. Also, if the climber had an additional pulley and prussik, as soon as they got to the anchor they could add that and continue hauling by attaching to the anchor and climbing the rope, or using a body weight haul/climb with the 3:1 advantage.

Anybody else know any nifty rescue tricks for rebelays?