Buckled seat harness

[NZcaver]

Uncle Muddy once said to me, "Buy a sit harness. Chances are if anything else fails, you'll survive. But if your sit harness fails, whether it is a "bought and paid for" type or home made, you will be just as dead, but at least if it is bought and paid for, your children can sue somebody."

Ah yes, the American way...

[hank moon]

I see no problem with this harness (other than the buckle breaking?!?!?) at this point... I will test the setup tomorrow on the rope at work to see how well / comfortable / easy it is to use... IF It don't work like I like, then I'll start from the drawer board (not like a lost any of my webbing you know).

Unless you have test data on your specific rig, you're gonna be hanging your butt out on faith. Why not write to the authors of the diagram you posted and ask them what testing they have done to show the buckles don't work loose and under what conditions they fail?

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Unless you have test data on your specific rig, you're gonna be hanging your butt out on faith. Why not write to the authors of the diagram you posted and ask them what testing they have done to show the buckles don't work loose and under what conditions they fail?

This is the reason I'd be using knots if I made my own harness, a water / tape / square knots behaviour is largely known. OK so it halfs the tape strength but your harness is presumably from the same tape you use for rigging so in reality your harness will be no stronger or weaker than your rigging and you trust that right.

[NZcaver]

Unless you have test data on your specific rig, you're gonna be hanging your butt out on faith. Why not write to the authors of the diagram you posted and ask them what testing they have done to show the buckles don't work loose and under what conditions they fail?

This is the reason I'd be using knots if I made my own harness, a water / tape / square knots behaviour is largely known. OK so it halfs the tape strength but your harness is presumably from the same tape you use for rigging so in reality your harness will be no stronger or weaker than your rigging and you trust that right.

I'm not sure about you, but most of my harnesses are made from about 50mm (2 inch) webbing. I rig with 25mm (1 inch) tubular webbing, but I wouldn't want to use it too often as a harness. Ouch!

Not to knock knotted harnesses (try saying that fast!), but those knots can be bulky and painful - especially in larger webbing.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I'm not sure about you, but most of my harnesses are made from about 50mm (2 inch) webbing. I rig with 25mm (1 inch) tubular webbing, but I wouldn't want to use it too often as a harness. Ouch!

Not to knock knotted harnesses (try saying that fast!), but those knots can be bulky and painful - especially in larger webbing.

We predominately use 2" webbing for rigging (although there is some argument) I personally prefer 1" tube tape as it's easier to handle etc. Tube tape and 2" flat are basicly the same thing as far as strength goes AFAIK.

I think I have made abseiling harnesses out of 1" tube tape when I was younger if I remember rightly they weren't too bad.

I agree a knotted harness is unlikely to be very comfortable but at least it is a known quantity and safe - I know what I'd prefer. (my opinion only of course)

You guys in the US have better access to different harnesses anyway and they are cheaper too, here it's either Petzl caving harnesses or nothing and it was a reasonable amount cheaper for me to order from the US and pay frieght than get one locally (and the local one was already pretty heavily discounted) given that, I'd just buy a new harness (but I've already said that)

PS: Harness Hang Syndrome is a safety aspect we haven't brought in to this discussion Is a bought or more comfortable harness more likely to protect you from this danger?

More about HHS here: http://www.texasroperescue.com/library/Harness%20Hang%20Syndrome.htm

[Landon Parks]

I am using Military spec buckles which are designed to fit the Mil-Spec webbing (1 23/32" wide).

[Landon Parks]

I have actually decided that I'm going to go ahead and use an actual pre-made climbing harness I guess. I am still making the rest of the system through... Primarily with Buckles... Since none of the other equipment is really "Life Support"... Buckles are easy, cheap and can be undone and redone very easy if needed, which is why I am choosing them for my system.

[cob]

Uncle Muddy once said to me, "Buy a sit harness. Chances are if anything else fails, you'll survive. But if your sit harness fails, whether it is a "bought and paid for" type or home made, you will be just as dead, but at least if it is bought and paid for, your children can sue somebody."

Ah yes, the American way...

zzziiiipppp... ya missed that one.... ya think they don't know it? ya think they are gonna make one that'll fail? I don't think so...

[NZcaver]

zzziiiipppp... ya missed that one.... ya think they don't know it? ya think they are gonna make one that'll fail? I don't think so...

Yeah, none of the ones I've made have failed either - yet. Maybe I'm just lucky...


I realize this is a little off-topic... but whenever someone alludes to the joy of being able to sue a gear manufacturer for this or that, I can't help thinking back to this old post - and the subsequent discussion thereafter:

http://www.caves.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=16

[hunter]

I have actually decided that I'm going to go ahead and use an actual pre-made climbing harness I guess. I am still making the rest of the system through... Primarily with Buckles... Since none of the other equipment is really "Life Support"... Buckles are easy, cheap and can be undone and redone very easy if needed, which is why I am choosing them for my system.

Hey Landon, probably a good decision. I learned climbing in a tied 1" webbing harness. It's a good technique to know but regardless of the crossings (knot or webbing) 1" webbing is really painful in a harness for anything more than a few minutes.

I am using Military spec buckles

Also out of curiosity, what are the strength requirements for a mil spec buckle on 1" webbing? I have lots of buckles on premade gear but I've never thought about buying one and how strong it would have to be.

James

[cob]

Yeah, none of the ones I've made have failed either - yet. Maybe I'm just lucky...

You and me both brother, you and me both... wait a minute, I did have a foot harness fail once. Does that make me really lucky because nothing else failed at the same time???

I realize this is a little off-topic... but whenever someone alludes to the joy of being able to sue a gear manufacturer for this or that,

I always wonder, whenever somebody alludes to the "sue-happy" American Culture... Do they have something against "Corporate Responsiblity"?

tom

[NZcaver]

I always wonder, whenever somebody alludes to the "sue-happy" American Culture... Do they have something against "Corporate Responsiblity"?

Well like many things in life, one really needs to find the right balance. In this example, perhaps a suitable blend of Corporate Responsibility and Individual Responsibility (on the part of the user) is best called for. Of course the latter is sometimes known as Common Sense - something which seems to be exercised less and less in today's litigious society...

...And now back to our regular topic... whatever you do, don't construct your harness out of webbing and secure it together with rivets. I have seen this (luckily without fatal consequences). It doesn't work too well.

[chh]

whatever you do, don't construct your harness out of webbing and secure it together with rivets.

Holy crap.........