Buckled seat harness

[Landon Parks]

Hi there guys... I bought an 8 foot length of 1 23/32 inch webbing with the hopes of being able to tie a seat harness. Come to find out the webbing is to short to do so, so instead of trying to sew something (which I'm no good at) I want to just use buckles.

In "Vertical" it shows somewhat how to thread the buckles for harness similar to the European style harness, although it does not show from start to Finnish the exact way to thread the buckle. I've been sitting here trying to figure out exactly how to do it, but nothing I try works.

Can anyone here tell me or point me to a website that will tell me how the thread the buckles on the harness?

Thanks!
Landon

[NZcaver]

Hi there guys... I bought an 8 foot length of 1 23/32 inch webbing with the hopes of being able to tie a seat harness. Come to find out the webbing is to short to do so, so instead of trying to sew something (which I'm no good at) I want to just use buckles.

Buckles are generally sewn to one end of the harness webbing - and then the other end is threaded through, adjusted tight, and then threaded back on itself to "lock".

Not sure what you mean about using buckles "instead" of sewing...

[Landon Parks]

Thats what it says in "Vertical" anyway.

L

[nordicjw]

Landon,


Do not take this the wrong way, I am not making fun of you or critizing you. How much is your life worth to you and others. I'd guess that you are fairly young. You can buy a retail cave harness that is relatively inexpensive or if you really want to make one, get the right length webbing and some hands on help.

[Landon Parks]

I'm not about to pay $50 for something I can make for $10. For right now I'm probably just going to buckle the two ends together and just use it as a diaper sling (Nappy seat) until I can afford to get either more webbing or an actual sit harness.

The webbing I have is long enough to sew, but there is just a few problems standing in the way of doing that: #1 The sewing machine I have is not a commercial one, so I'm not sure of it's ability to sew through 2 layers of nylon webbing. I know the proper stictch patterns and all, but another problem standing in my way is the type of thread to use. I know I need a special type of nylon thread, but I'm not sure what kind/size or where to buy it at.

Plus I trust a buckle more than I do thread....

[NZcaver]

Nordicjw has a point - safety first! Having said that, generations of cavers have quite sucessfully used harnesses they have made themselves. Although I've seen a few scary examples, I've also seen a lot of well-made harnesses of tried and tested designs.

Landon - I think I know what Alan (the author) is trying to show in that diagram. You thread the buckle onto the webbing, then loop the end around your thigh and thread it through the buckle again - in the same direction as you did on the first pass. Finally, you thread the end back on itself to lock it. One possible drawback with this method is that the webbing leaves the buckle in 3 directions (a "Y" configuration). Although this *shouldn't* cause a serious safety issue, just having the webbing leave the buckle in non-linear directions might be less than ideal. (I suspect it might put unequal force on one edge of the webbing at the point where it meets the buckle.)

Don't be too untrusting of stitching - when done properly, it's often stronger than the webbing itself. Your regular sewing machine is likely to do fine on 2 layers of nylon, if you take it slow (you might break a needle or two.) I suggest you use heavy synthetic thread (nylon or perhaps polyester, but NOT cotton) - about T-80 size or larger. You might need to get bigger needles to handle the thread, too.

A word of warning - the diaper/nappy seat harness design you mentioned is seldom considered comfortable!

[nordicjw]

Another source that I'm sure would be glad to help you would be members of the Bloomington Grotto. They hold there meetings at Indiana Univ.

After rereading my first reply to you, I thought that my comment about being young might have offended you. It was not meant as a criticism of your ability or decision making.

Anyway good luck with the harness, I've made or modified some of my gear for various activities. It can be frustrating at times but you get a real sense of achievement when it comes out the way you wanted.

[Landon Parks]

Thanks NZ.... That's the info I was looking for.

For right now, I'm going to go with the buckle design for a while. It don't seem to comfortable mind you, and it does not have any actual "tie In" loops for the Carabiner... But It will work for what I need it for (I only do vertical once in a while, not going to be putting a lot of wear on the equipment yet!)

If the buckle design proves to be too much trouble or unsafe (upon my tests I'll do on my tree) I will then consider changing from the buckles to stitching, which should be pretty easy to do.

I am definitely going to test the whole setup 150% before I ever take it underground... Make sure it will hold my weight for a long period of time and that type of stuff... I'm not going to do ANYTHING that's going to put my life in danger more than it already is (hanging 200' above a limestone floor a rope is pretty dangerous itself...)

PS)
nordicjw

You didn't offend me at all. Thanks for the advice as well. I am actually already a member of the BIG and several other local organizations for caving....

Thanks everybody for your help!

Landon

[NICKSCAVE]

Landon, for Gods sake 12 feet of webbing is almost free at any cave supply store and is plenty of webbing to make a safe harness. I used a webbing harness for 2 years with no problem but starting off with only 8 feet is not enough to make a safe harness unless your waist is like 20" in diameter. If you need it I have an extra harness I will sell you very cheap

[ian mckenzie]

My first climbing harness was a full-body job that was a single, really long piece of webbing the used "buckes instead of stitching" wherever the webbing crossed itself (if I recall, on the side of each hip, and in the middle of the back). The buckles simply held the webbing in place to form the various loops and crosses that formed the harness. There were no webbing tails involved at the buckle points, so no "thread it thru again" as others have described - each buckle already had two webbings running thru it. The webbing could be adjusted for height, thigh size etc at each buckle point. This is DIFFERENT from what others are saying regarding a buckle to secure the TAIL of the webbing, which must be secured in the "thread it thru again" method.

[Landon Parks]

I just tried the harness with 2 buckles on each leg loop and it works fine (I even have about 1/2 foot of webbing left on each side of the buckles after being "Re-Threaded" to secure the tails.

I see no problem with this harness (other than the buckle breaking?!?!?) at this point... I will test the setup tomorrow on the rope at work to see how well / comfortable / easy it is to use... IF It don't work like I like, then I'll start from the drawer board (not like a lost any of my webbing you know).

PS) I'm very tall and skinny... so 8 feet works pretty well on me (except when your trying to tie a harness, then there might need to be 12 feet). My waste is 28" in diameter in fact, lol...

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I see no problem with this harness (other than the buckle breaking?!?!?) at this point... I will test the setup tomorrow on the rope at work to see how well / comfortable / easy it is to use... IF It don't work like I like, then I'll start from the drawer board (not like a lost any of my webbing you know).

I don't see that hanging in a harness is really testing very much (except comfort), I guess it is worthwhile doing but the real test for your harness would be something close to a fall factor two after which you should probably retire it.

My point is that you cannot make your harness then test it and rely on the testing to find any strength faults, the faults (unless very bad) are only going to become evident in a fall. So to my mind you need to be aware of this and construct your harness with this in mind, if you are unsure of anything either buy a harness (the option I took) or seek proper advice.

PS:There are quite a few stories of home sewn slings, cowstails, and harnesses being tested before being retired and finding out that a small fall would have caused them to fail. I'd trust knots over buckles or sewing.

My opinion (not that you asked for it but...) you can go cheap with almost everything else you ascend on prusiks, descend on cross carabiners or even an 8 or munter hitch or ATC (although these all have thier downfalls) you can and should IMO make your own cowtails. BUT it all comes back to your harness if it doesn't hold then it doesn't matter how good the other gear is. So a harness would be the the thing I'd be most careful with.

my 2 cents

[Adam Byrd]

Langdon,

Here is a link you may find useful. It shows another simple way to tie a harness, though I doubt you'll be able to tie it with an eight foot piece of webbing.

http://www.brmrg.net/knots/seat.html

[hunter]

(other than the buckle breaking?!?!?)

Just curious, what buckles are you using?

James

[cob]

Uncle Muddy once said to me, "Buy a sit harness. Chances are if anything else fails, you'll survive. But if your sit harness fails, whether it is a "bought and paid for" type or home made, you will be just as dead, but at least if it is bought and paid for, your children can sue somebody."


tom