NZcaver wrote:hunter wrote:...About 5 years later they started requiring backup as required by the insurance company. I think the point here and the point no one has mentioned is that it is possible (however stupid) for someone to tie a figure 8 wrong. In this scenario a backup can save someone's life...
I'm sorry - if someone ties a figure 8 so poorly that can slip apart, what makes you think their backup knot will be tied properly?
It may *look* safer, but if not tied, dressed, and pre-tensioned properly it's really a waste of time and rope...
I totally agree, and not only for a figure 8 knot, of course. If someone doesn't know how to properly set knots, on either rope and webbing, better him/her off the cave to learn knots than not in cave experimenting with their lives and the ones of their buddies. No back up will ever hold, it will just let people (wrongly) believe of being safer.
About sewn sling. hunter, I do believe they might be useful in many situations. But also there are at least as many situations, in my own experience, where you will be way better off with a sling you have to tie a knot in. A mix is the best way to go. my cent