Rope recomendations

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10.5mm Rope

Postby pacaver » Sep 9, 2005 9:39 pm

Hi DangerJudy, I bought 700 feet of PMI 11mm a couple months ago from OnRope1 and the tag that I still have(yes, I'm anal retentive with that stuff) reads:

SR110WH366M 11mm Sld White Max x 366 meters (1200')

DIAMETER 11mm (7/16 inch) Tensile 6550 lpf (29.1 Kn)

I'm assuming that they made a run of 1200 feet and cut mine from that.
I don't know of any misrepresentation of 10.5 for 11, maybe it's just another type they're selling.
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Anchoring and Rigging

Postby Arthur Clarke » Sep 10, 2005 3:31 am

hunter wrote:I guess rigging would be the politically correct caving term, never really thought about it but I climb a lot and certainly use the term "anchoring" there.
"Rigging" is probably a better word because it really encompasses the full setup of a rope for caving (building the anchor/rope pads/re-belays, etc...). Of course thinking about it I also say I will rig the rope when I'm climbing...

Hunter


"Anchoring and Rigging"

I see the two concepts: "Anchoring and Rigging" as being different aspects of a process for using ropes in caving (and climbing), but as Hunter says, the term "rigging" could include "anchoring". The difference to me is simply that anchoring is the process of placing your rope to be used for abseiling (rappelling) or prussiking in a fixed and stable position, i.e., around the butt of a tree outside a cave, or wrapped around a natural anchor point within the cave, e,g., a bollard or jug, or attaching a figure of eight loop in the end of the rope to a an artificial anchor (bolt) by way of a sling or karabiner.

Rigging on the other hand relates to the way in which the rope (or ladder) is positioned in a cave, including the manner in which it is anchored (using natural or artificial anchors or a mix of both). The rigging for a cave may entail the use of rope protectors or re-belays to have the rope in the optimum position for SRT, presumably as a free hang if you want to minimise rope abrasion or you are using 9mm rope or something thinner. So in the case of a multi-pitch cave, the rigging details might describe the location positions for bolts at pitch heads or provide a description of the position of tried and tested natural anchors, as well as relating the recommended rope lengths for each pitch including added lengths for tie back and re-belay and the number of krabs or slings that might need to be deployed to set up a Y-hang and/ or for anchoring to some other fixed point.

Cheers,
Arthur Clarke.
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Rope

Postby speloman » Sep 10, 2005 10:04 am

I have to agree with a previous reply about the Rack. It is way much better the 8 plates because of the straight feed. they don't twist the ropes like 8 plates do. Also I have favored the Petzl stop which operates be Depressing a red handle to descend and if you let go of the handle you will stop. but as of any descender requires training and experienced. I recommend getting with some one who knows this equipment and have them Show you how it works. Practice Is the key Try before you buy I always say. Gear is expensive and it really sucks to buy something you don't like. Please note this is only my opinion. I use different devices for different abseils. I will use a rescue 8 for short drops. and a Rack or a stop for long drops. But remember (I know broken Record) get lots of experience above ground before trying new gear underground. (My opinion). I personally like Blue Water II 11mm caving rope. It is pretty resistant to abrasive and I found excellent for use in caving. but I also have a new England 11mm and it is a great rope. I always like larger diameter ropes for my main rig and use smaller ropes while underground because of light weight.
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Postby David_Campen » Sep 10, 2005 12:38 pm

Why does everybody call PMI Pit Rope 11mm but PMI calls it 10.5mm?

This is a very interesting observation!

I had thought that PMI Pit Rope was 11.6mm like the EZ-bend and MaxWear but here PMI says that it is 10.5mm:
http://pmirope.secure-shops5.com/produc ... 7&catid=39
Note that this page also does _not_ give values for strength or weight per length. I had emailed PMI last month complaining about the lack of such information on their web site but never got a response. Bluewater is getting just as bad - very hard to find any information in their catalog; my guess is that they are now marketing more to canyoneers and sports climbers who don't seem to care very much about details.
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Postby NZcaver » Sep 12, 2005 2:47 am

Strange - I always thought PMI Pit Rope was 11mm too! Some manufacturers actually list the diameter the rope is while under load, but I didn't think PMI did that. Perhaps the new Pit Rope has different specs than the old Pit Rope?

I just looked at my latest PMI catalog (#205) and it doesn't specifically mention Pit Rope at all. However its twin brother PMI 10.5mm Pit Glow (aka All-white Classic Max Wear) is shown, along with specs which I assume are virtually the same as regular Pit Rope. It weighs 76g/m, and the MBS is 29.1kN. The list price is $2.94/m ($0.88/ft) for cut lengths.

PMI Classic Sport and Classic Professional 11mm ropes are also listed. Both have the same specs, and weigh 82g/m with an MBS of 29.1kN. David - I'm surprised you didn't get a response to your email. PMI is normally pretty good answering enquiries, and are very particular about their rope specs. However, I couldn't find those specs on their website either - very weird. If you have other questions I suggest sending another email, or phoning them.

I currently use PMI and Bluewater ropes for caving, and have used various other types over the years. My PMI is a bit stiff but great to ascend on (normal for that rope). My Bluewater is more flexible, and handles nicely while rappelling.

Check out the "spinoff post about the stop" topic for more discussion about different descenders... :caver:
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PMI rope diameters

Postby Steve Hudson » Sep 12, 2005 3:04 pm

PMI Pit rope is and always has been 7/16â€
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Postby Scott McCrea » Sep 12, 2005 9:30 pm

Good info, Steve! It's great to hear a little history and behind the scenes tech stuff from you. Thanks for sharing!

In case y'all don't know, Steve Hudson is the President of PMI.
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Postby NZcaver » Sep 12, 2005 11:35 pm

Thanks for the info, Steve. I stand corrected... :oops:

I assume the 0.5mm rounding you refer to applies to just static and low-stretch rope? (I just ordered a piece of your 9.7mm dynamic rope today.)

By the way, are the rope weights and MBS figures listed anywhere on your website?
Last edited by NZcaver on Jul 19, 2006 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Steve Hudson » Sep 13, 2005 10:44 pm

Jansen - UIAA standards for “dynamicâ€
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Postby NZcaver » Sep 13, 2005 11:52 pm

Steve - thanks for the explanation.

Generally, the only time I look up dynamic rope specs is when I buy new cowstails. I'd be lying if I said I could climb without ascenders! Nice 2005 catalog - I picked up a paper copy from the gear cache in Alabama.

Thanks again!
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Postby David_Campen » Sep 14, 2005 11:49 am

you can download a PDF copy of the PMI catalog

I would like to, could you give me a link for doing that?
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Postby Tim White » Sep 14, 2005 12:21 pm

David_Campen wrote:
you can download a PDF copy of the PMI catalog

I would like to, could you give me a link for doing that?



http://pmirope.com/05CatalogWeb/Click%2 ... atalog.htm
Be safe,
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Postby David_Campen » Sep 14, 2005 2:49 pm

Thanks but I had found that page and it doesn't do much for me; for example, when I click on the "Rope" button on the right I just get a blank page.
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Postby NZcaver » Sep 14, 2005 7:05 pm

David - I just went to that link, clicked on "rope", and everything came up fine. I assume you have Adobe Acrobat on you computer? (If not, it's a free download.) If you do have Acrobat, I suggest you open it and check for updates - you may have an outdated version that won't read the file.
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Postby David_Campen » Sep 14, 2005 8:06 pm

Thanks, I had to update from V6 to V7. I look at PDF files downloaded from the Internet probably a couple of times a week; I think that this was the first I have run into that required V7.
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