Camp Goblin device that is interesting

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Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby Ernie Coffman » Nov 24, 2013 11:25 pm

One of our guys on the rope team was trying out his new Camp Goblin device, which I hadn't heard of before. Thus, here's a pretty cool link for it - http://www.abaris.co.uk/back-up-devices ... rester.htm . I was wondering if any of you have had the opportunity to try it out and what you think of it? :shrug: Pro and con thoughts would be welcome.
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby NZcaver » Nov 24, 2013 11:34 pm

That is an interesting device. Might be fun to try. I wonder how well it locks in a sudden fall if the rope below is significantly long/heavy or has a load on it?
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby snoboy » Nov 25, 2013 2:56 am

The second video on the linked page shows testing with a loaded rope. Preloaded with 80, then 120 kg.
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby Stridergdm » Nov 30, 2013 3:04 pm

Could be interesting (and I'll have to look at the site more closely) but I'll reiterate the point there's a difference between fall-arrest and fall-prevention. For SRT you pretty much want the latter (though I can see cases for the former.)
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Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby Ernie Coffman » Nov 30, 2013 4:48 pm

It is simlar to the Petzl ASAP, if anyone has knowledge of that instrument. One of our SAR guys purchased the Goblin, after doing some research between the two, and he feels that it's better. When trying it out last week, he was rapping on SRT, but had the Goblin on another rope beside him, so...that's why I put this out for discussion. The rope wasn't long enough, so it came in handy. :>) Needless to say, there was a knot at the end, although it wasn't a loop, so there could have been a hiccup if he had gone a little farther, if it weren't up against the rock.
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby Bob Thrun » Dec 1, 2013 4:16 am

Ernie Coffman wrote:It is simlar to the Petzl ASAP, if anyone has knowledge of that instrument

The Goblin and ASAP are only similar in that they are both fall arrest devices. The ASAP is unique among fall arrest devices because it uses an inertia reel similar to what is found an many seatbelts. The inertia reel is the ASAP's most distinctive feature, although Petzl does not mention it anywhere. It has an aggressively toothed wheel that digs into the rope when it is activated. It is activated when it is pulled down the rope rapidly. It can be pulled down the rope slowly. It looks like the ASAP accommodates a wider range of rope sizes than the Goblin.

The Goblin is very sensitive to rope size. The markings say 10-11 mm rope, and they mean it. It would not work with a piece of PMI Pit Rope that I measured at 12.1 mm. With the proper size rope (I tried 10.7 mm)., the Goblin can be pulled up by the attached carabiner, but it must be pushed down by hand while squeezing it in just the right way. I can't describe the gripping mechanism in words, but it is similar to some other fall arrest devices. There is no toothed cam. The instructions are more difficult to fold than any road map.
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby Ernie Coffman » Dec 1, 2013 11:34 am

So Bob, does this mean that the ASAP could be more dangerous to the rope than the Goblin, when you mentioned that its "...an aggressively toothed wheel that digs into the rope when it is activated?" Remember when the Petzl Tibloc first came out and we thought it might be the cat's meow--small, very light weight, cute--but when Bruce (I believe it was) did a climb with it at the convention, it tore up the sheath. Of course, if it would have been slow and go, it probably wouldn't have damaged the rope, but it was during the climbing contest, so what better place to try it out? Ha!
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby Bob Thrun » Dec 1, 2013 5:53 pm

The teeth on the ASAP look scary. Whether they will damage the rope depends on the rope construction, rope size, and cam angle. You would have to make a test to know for sure. Heightec claims its X-Cam design will damage the rope less than other designs. The Lyon report, www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01364.pdf, has tests on several devices. One interesting result is that almost all devices cut the sheath on a dynamic rope. Heightec is lobbying for that report to be replaced with more recent tests.
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby NZcaver » Dec 1, 2013 6:21 pm

I have deliberately had an ASAP catch me (from a controlled fall) on several occasions using 11mm static rope. Zero visible damage to the rope, despite the scary looking teeth. Perhaps over time some fuzzing might become evident eventually, but the tooth action via an inertia wheel in a dynamic fall is of course quite different to similar teeth on an ascender used for progression up the rope. This similar aggressive tooth design on the Tibloc emergency ascender is a bonus for gripping icy ropes, but compared to regular Petzl ascenders with cams the user needs to be more deliberate with their technique when moving and transferring weight with each step. They are not designed for speed. While it might be an interesting experiment to use one for a climbing competition, it is outside the intended scope of the device and no surprise that a user damaged the rope with it.

I am not familiar with the Goblin, but on the whole I am wary of devices like this that operate with limited tolerances such as a narrow range of rope diameters. What if your correct diameter rope is too fuzzy, or coated in mud, or iced up?
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Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby Ernie Coffman » Dec 1, 2013 7:00 pm

I read you loud and clear, NZ, so tell us more about your deliberate fall with an ASAP. Here or private. And, you're definitely correct that the Tibloc isn't for speed. It was sacrifice time to see what it might do...when it was done at the climbing contest, in Texas, I believe it was, but could have been earlier than that. :shrug:
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Re: Camp Goblin device that is interesting

Postby NZcaver » Dec 2, 2013 2:14 am

Ernie Coffman wrote:I read you loud and clear, NZ, so tell us more about your deliberate fall with an ASAP.

Nothing really to report. Controlled rappel with ASAP on safety rope, gradually increasing speed until inertia lock engaged. Hence "controlled fall." Informal testing using rope and gear that didn't belong to me. :big grin:
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