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Cody JW wrote:I remember hearing that open face ascenders were more prown to twisting off . I remember about the time when ropewalkers went from using only Gibbs to using Petzl or cmi that issue or possibility of that issue came up. . NZ, I know you have done at least one NCRC . Do rescue personnel prefer to use Gibbs on a haul system ?? If so, is it because they do not twist off like an open face ascender like Petzl, Jumar and CMI ? Or is the load rating higher on gibbs?
Cody JW wrote:NZ, I know you have done at least one NCRC . Do rescue personnel prefer to use Gibbs on a haul system ?? If so, is it because they do not twist off like an open face ascender like Petzl, Jumar and CMI ? Or is the load rating higher on gibbs?
NZcaver wrote:However in some countries, toothed cam ascenders are commonly used in cave rescue haul systems with single person rescue loads.
NZcaver wrote: do you know of documented examples where modern toothed-cam ascenders (e.g. Petzl) have twisted off a rope in normal SRT use in a frog system?
I am not necessarily advocating the use of single point ascender attachments during changeovers.
Mike Hopley wrote:Hanging from just one ascender, under static tension, is safe; climbing rope attached to only one ascender is not.
paul wrote:NZcaver wrote:However in some countries, toothed cam ascenders are commonly used in cave rescue haul systems with single person rescue loads.
We do, in the UK.
Extremeophile wrote:paul wrote:NZcaver wrote:However in some countries, toothed cam ascenders are commonly used in cave rescue haul systems with single person rescue loads.
We do, in the UK.
I definitely think the use of toothed ascenders, Traxions, and Grigris in cave rescue, especially small party rescue, should be further evaluated in the US. Some of the standard methods seem to be overly complicated and slow in order to avoid some possible but unlikely side effect. But that's a topic for another thread.
Extremeophile wrote:paul wrote:NZcaver wrote:However in some countries, toothed cam ascenders are commonly used in cave rescue haul systems with single person rescue loads.
We do, in the UK.
I definitely think the use of toothed ascenders, Traxions, and Grigris in cave rescue, especially small party rescue, should be further evaluated in the US. Some of the standard methods seem to be overly complicated and slow in order to avoid some possible but unlikely side effect. But that's a topic for another thread.
junkman wrote:The Traxion is a great device for a single load haul system. A pulley with a progress capture, what's not to like.
junkman wrote:The Traxion is a great device for a single load haul system. A pulley with a progress capture, what's not to like.
wyandottecaver wrote:If your hanging in a tree with your buddies you can afford to be snobbish about technique. If your hanging in a waterfall and not going anywhere, it's time to get out of there any way you can.
wyandottecaver wrote:Jumping back in here going back to body type and frog/mitchell. I love a mitchell hanging in a tree or wide open pit. For 90% of the actual caving I do, not so much. Overhung lips, snaggy walls, heavy goopy mud, dragging the thing around... It's a pain. Of course I drag a dedicated adjustable QAS around and wouldn't leave home without it...so go figure
As for changeovers and attachment, the key is to make sure you can actually do it at all under sub-optimal conditions. If that means briefly going to 1 point of contact I'm ok with that. Of course doing it where you maintain 2 points is always preferred. The bottom line IMHO is you should always weigh the risks. If your hanging in a tree with your buddies you can afford to be snobbish about technique. If your hanging in a waterfall and not going anywhere, it's time to get out of there any way you can.
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