What rope climbing system do you use most?

[potholer]

The ease of double-legging against a wall with a Pantin is possibly the feature I appreciate most. One of the caves I've spent some time exploring in Slovenia has an entrance series just short of 500m deep, most of which involves pitches or pitch-sections 20m or less against a not-quite vertical wall, as do the few long lower pitches.
Using 11mm rope for durability, with jammers often sticky due to the abundant grit and sand, the rope relatively dry, and often little weight of rope below to assist pulling through, it's a fair slog out, especially when carrying a load back from a deep campsite. When you're tired, even the occasional need to use the right hand to assist the rope through the Croll is a drain, and psychologically dispiriting, and the traditional technique of both feet in a single footloop isn't nice either, since the cycle tends to be:

Push up with both feet together, swinging out from the wall.
Open feet while lifting legs to allow rope to run through between them
Close feet just as your toes smack back into the wall
...And repeat

With a Pantin, it's easy to move the feet independently up the wall, so no more bruised toes, and I reckon the lack of clamping the rope between both feet also helps reduce the amount of mud and grit smeared into the rope from the boots.

Even when free-hanging, for sustained vertical climbing carrying loads it often seems easier to use a three-part cycle, standing up with both legs, and then alternately lifting each leg for the next step. The speed at which I stand up, and the speed I lift my legs at seem to be naturally fixed, and a regular two-part stand/lift frog cycle would be a little fast compared to my sustainable cruising speed, but the three-step cycle slows the rhythm a little without actually stopping doing anything throughout the cycle and losing psychological momentum, so I'm able to switch off my mind and climb steadily without stopping, usually outpacing fellow explorers half my age, despite being rather heavier and less fit than I used to be.

The main thing to be careful of is to make sure the right leg pushes down as vertically as possible. If pushing significantly off a wall with a foot, it's better to use the left one, otherwise the taught rope running to the right foot can cause friction and wear on the inside-front of the Croll frame. Likewise, for free-hanging rebelays, the right foot should be as far back as possible, otherwise there can be an unpleasant twanging when removing the Croll, as the angle-tightened rope pulls out from the frame, and you make a slight lurch backwards.

The Pantin cam does release easily, which is an advantage in some situations, making removal from the rope a no-hands process, but in ropes with some sideways tension at the bottom, or if thrashing around trying to clear a pitch-bottom waterfall it can be annoying, but I've bodged a little modification using a couple of loops of shockcord pushed through the hole in my Pantin body, which stops the cam opening as easily, but still allows manual attachment and removal, and which can be pulled out completely if regular operation is required.

[paul]

The Pantin cam does release easily, which is an advantage in some situations, making removal from the rope a no-hands process, but in ropes with some sideways tension at the bottom, or if thrashing around trying to clear a pitch-bottom waterfall it can be annoying, but I've bodged a little modification using a couple of loops of shockcord pushed through the hole in my Pantin body, which stops the cam opening as easily, but still allows manual attachment and removal, and which can be pulled out completely if regular operation is required.

The Pantin - best thing sice slice bread when frogging.

It is important to point out that the Pantin works very much better in this application than a Croll or standard Basic Petzl jammer. By design it has a very weak return spring on the cam and no safety latch to keep the cam either opened or closed. This makes the rope travel through much, much easier than a normal jammer, especially at the bottom of the pitch and also easy to remove from the rope with a sharp kick backwards.

This isn't a safety issue as you still have the two usual jammers of the frog system but the addition of the Pantin holds the body much more upright when frogging, hence more efficiency and also helps pull the rope through the chest jammer. If you find the Pantin comes off the rope too easily, you can clip a snaplink carabiner through the small hole beneath the cam to prevent it happening (though you then have to remove this carabiner to disconnect from the rope).

Also as the Pantin is an optional extra when frogging, it can be used to replace the footloop jammer in an emergency - being smaller and lighter than a normal jammer (but take care to add the carabiner to prevent the cam opening nintentionally).

[ariklee]

Can anyone provide a link that diagrams the Texas or Mitchel method?

Also, just curious, has anyone had to set up a tyrollean in a cave? I'm thinking of a huge cavern you drop into and there way off to the side is a passage that you want to explore...and perhaps leave a fixed tyrollean so as not to have to traverse again....anyone know of this situation?

arik

[potholer]

We did set up a tyrollean across the top of a shaft in a cave in Slovenia, but only to avoid having to drop 15m down angled ropes to a rock bridge and climb back up the other side, so it wasn't strictly necessary, more a bit of time and energy-saving fun for a trade route while exploring.

We used ~8mm steel cable, hanging from it via a pulley which could be pulled to either side of the shaft via attached lengths of string, and also had a parallel line of 11mm rope to which cowstails could be clipped in for backup. The cable wasn't tensioned, to minimise loading, and also because the two ends weren't level, and a sagging cable meant you could jump off at the higher end without flying across too fast to the other side.

[Mark620]

ladder

[NZcaver]

Can anyone provide a link that diagrams the Texas or Mitchel method?

Check out this chapter of Alan Warild's on-line book "Vertical" - http://www.caves.com/7ASCENT.pdf (Be warned - he's Australian, so it's all in metric)

Page 91 details the Texas System, and page 93 the Mitchell System. However that PDF version is print/save protected, so if you want to print them out (for personal use, of course) try pages 95 and 98 in this older version of the same publication - http://www.barlang.hu/pages/konyvek/vertical.pdf

Also, just curious, has anyone had to set up a tyrollean in a cave?

Check out page 55 in that second link I provided - it has some good diagrams. I've set up sloping and horizontal tyroleans before - mainly just for fun - but not in a cave. However, I have been on a commercial adventure tour in a pre-rigged (but non-lighted) "wild" cave, which included riding a zip line across a large chamber in total darkness.

Here's a shot I took of one of the others zipping past -


Much fun, especially since we didn't have to pay to do it.

[Mark620]

[Lava tuber]

I use a frog with the Pantin. love that pantin sure does make it a hole lot nicer on a climb. tried my buddies Mitchell system liked that alot but I will stay with my frog for now

[Scott McCrea]

Bump. If you haven't voted in this poll, please do so. Thanks!

[Dwight Livingston]

A frog system costs about $150 . . . Not including harness.

Sounds like a safe etsimate. I just put together a frog for less than $115. The Croll, Basic, and two Spirit 'biners were $110 shipped. The rest I had already - some 9mm dynamic rope, 6mm utility cord, 1 inch webbing, tubing, and a utility 'biner - had to be less than $5.

Dwight

[tchudson]

I've been using Texas for about 14 or 15 years now. I started on ropewalker but hated using the chest harness. Plus, after I got involved in more multi-drop caving, a Texas was much more efficient and compact. I've climbed on a Mitchell once and frog once, but I haven't climbed on a ropewalker since that final time in '92.

[Randyrn]

I started with a Frog system, climbed on knots quite a bit (helicals mostly), moved to a double bungee and eventually a Mitchell. I LOVE MY MITCHELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[killian]

I would really like to get out of the other category and move into something like the frog or the rope walker but do not know how to set them up or what parts you need to do so? anybody have any diagrams?

[tchudson]

If you have a copy of On Rope, it has diagrams for the various climbing systems. Also, someone posted a link to the pdf file of Vertical and I believe it has some diagrams.

As far as setting up the gear, several of the vendors, such as On Rope1 and Gonzo Guano Gear sell packaged climbing systems.

I personally think that someone should set up their initial system themselves with guidance from someone experienced with that system as it gives you a better idea of how the system functions. This also helps you learn how you might be able to improvise with other gear if you find yourself at the bottom of a pit with a faulty or missing piece of equipment.

[killian]

Thanks. i do not have a copy of on rope though. is there a place tat i can get on used or for cheap i don't have the 30 bucks to spend right now because it all went to carbide?