What rope climbing system do you use most?

[Scott McCrea]

I use a Texas most. Then a Ropewalker. Rarely a Frog and knots.

[speloman]

i am a frogger. Most of the shorter pithches I do would cause a rope walker to be a pain to use. I like the simplicity of the frog and it is much more afordable for me. I have done some fairly long pitches about 120 feet or so with my frog with no problem and love it.

[George Dasher]

I've got more than one system too, and what I use depends on the cave.

[Scott McCrea]

I've got more than one system too, and what I use depends on the cave.

Just answer the question, George.

[chh]

RIBBIT!!

[Ralph E. Powers]

For drops deeper than 120 feet I use the ropewalker/double bungee anything less than that it's a frog.
I did have a modified single bungee/mitchell rig til I had to cut it due to some damage done to the main safety... sigh... I miss that rig... was able to do 100 feet in about 48 seconds... that's pretty fast... for me.

[Stridergdm]

Frog here. Ever since I learned it, I've loved it.

Deepest I've done is about 360'. My biggest problem is speed.

It's humbling to see a certain someone (who I haven't seen post here, but her husband has) do the drop and ascent in about 5 minutes and it takes me FAR longer than that. (Don't ask how long, I'm not going to admit to it.

And of course the one time I did try doubling, it was fortunately a short drop, but my leg loops weren't sitting right and I was trying to follow someone on a ropewalker. Even with her taking baby steps she just flew up the rope.

Biggest problem in the Northeast... no deep pits. And no offense to the moderator and others, but I just cant' see moving to TAG. Though visiting is sure worth it!

[Herman Miller]

Biggest problem in the Northeast... no deep pits. And no offense to the moderator and others, but I just cant' see moving to TAG. Though visiting is sure worth it!

now if my wife knew I got orders to new mexico because I wanted to live in "big" cave country shed shoot me :).... by the way still looking for board contacts in new mexico

[jmo]

I have to vote Frog system as well! Maybe it's 'cause I used to play Frogger way too much when I was a young lad!

[NZcaver]

I've been happily frogging for almost 20 years now.

It was the "only" option available when (and where) I started out. And by the way - it still is for most of the rest of the caving world. Guess it must have something going for it (not to mention 72% of this poll right now!)

I see no reason to change, although I do have all the pieces for a Ropewalker setup laying around somewhere. I might even get around to using them in the next 20 years...

[Scott McCrea]

I found the results of the poll we took on March 15, 2005 in the previous version of this Discussion Board. The results were:

Frog ----------43
Ropewalker --10
Texas ----------5
Mitchell --------5
Knots ----------0
Other ----------1

Below are the first few posts from the resulting thread. I could not find the complete thread.

Scott McCrea 03-15-05 2:46 PM
I also did the poll on the Caves.com Vertical Caving Yahoo group. The results were:

Frog ----------22
Ropewalker ---9
Texas ----------4
Mitchell --------3
Knots ----------1
Other ----------1


kd4goc 03-15-05 03:00 PM
no easy answer

Can I vote twice? :p :laugh: I use my ropewalker and frog about 50% each.

Scott- Do you think the reason that there seem to be more frog users is the lower cost vs. that of a ropewalker or Mitchell? :rolleyes:


lava 03-15-05 03:06 PM
I use a frog because of its versatility, not because of the cost.


Sharon Faulkner 03-15-05 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lava
I use a frog because of its versatility, not because of the cost.

Same here.

Addendum: I own both a frog and rope walker, but have not used the ropewalker the last five years.


Ralph E. Powers 03-15-05 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lava
I use a frog because of its versatility, not because of the cost.

Ya me too, but if it's over 150+ feet, I'm going double bungee. Call me lazy but heh... that's just me. grins


hank moon 03-15-05 05:48 PM
Quote:
Call me lazy but heh... that's just me.

Lazy!

:good: OTOH, totin' all that junk around...heavier pack, extra ascenders, etc....maybe the Froggers are lazy.


Scott McCrea 03-15-05 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kd4goc
Scott- Do you think the reason that there seem to be more frog users is the lower cost vs. that of a ropewalker or Mitchell? :rolleyes:

Yes and no.

A frog system costs about $150.
A ropewalker costs about $300.
A Mitchell costs about $300.
A Texas costs about $125.
Knots costs about $20.

Not including harness.

So, yes cost is a big factor. But it's also a bang for the buck deal too. You can do more with a frog than you can with a RW. But I also wonder why more people don't use a Texas system. I think they are easier to learn and less gear and lighter than a frog.


Ralph E. Powers 03-15-05 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
Lazy!

:good: OTOH, totin' all that junk around...heavier pack, extra ascenders, etc....maybe the Froggers are lazy.

Not really, when we go to Boomerang you'll see how I'm able to have both frog and double bungee/RW without all the extra weight. In fact the only extra weight would be my chest harness for the double bungee/RW and the gibbs ascender used as my safety. If I were pressed I could just use the handled ascender for that... but ...ehh... the weight doesn't bother me. Especially since I go the EASY way to the cave.


Scott McCrea 03-15-05 10:01 PM
TAG Net poll

Turns out TAG Net ran the same poll recently. Here's the results:

What climbing system do you use?
Frog ----------69
Texas ----------5
Mitchell -------32
Ropewalker --75
Who knows? --7

Quite an interesting mix down in TAG. I'm amazed at how many Mitchell systems are being used. Great system, but loosing popularity, or so I thought. Lots of RW's, but there are also lots of deep pits in TAG that are perfect for RW's.

[potholer]

I Frog, with a Pantin, though I rarely use my legs completely alternately, usually using a symmetric or asymmetric frog rhythm.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I Frog, with a Pantin, though I rarely use my legs completely alternately, usually using a symmetric or asymmetric frog rhythm.

I have heard the addition of a Pantin (or Croll or Basic) to a standard frog rig can make it possible to use the same gear and change between a rope walker and a frog mid pitch. Is this what you mean?

Like is explained at the bottom of this page:
http://wasg.iinet.net.au/srt/srt.html

It's interesting but it would need a pretty long pitch to make it worthwhile I'd think. Still if you have a spare chest ascender / basic / pantin lying around why not.

[potholer]

Rather than the rig on the link you supplied, my rig is essentially a vanilla frog rig, with just the left foot in the normal hand-jammer footloop (held on with a chicken-loop), and the Pantin strapped to the right foot.
You can frog as in a standard frog system using both legs, or one or other single leg if desired, and switch between various frog styles and ropewalking (though requiring some kind of pull from the arms) just by changing the limb rhythm.

There is a kind of half-way situation, where most of the lift is from the arms (on the rope +/or hand jammer) and left leg, but the right leg is raised while standing up on the left, and a small subsequent step is taken with the right leg (via the Pantin), with the right leg being used to support the weight while the hand jammer is raised, so avoiding a loss of height when sitting down - in fact, it's possible to have a continuum between frogging and alternatling roughly equal independent leg movements.

Also, there's what I think is called the asymmetric frog, where there is essentially one standing-up motion, but which starts off with the left foot pulled right up under the backside, and the right foot a little lower down. Initial lift comes from the right leg, since the left leg is too bent to provide much force at first. At the end of the step, the right leg is essentially unloaded - this allows for maximum length steps with all four limbs providing lift, and seems to work well when carrying extra weight.

When plodding out of deep caves against a wall, it's easy to use both legs together for standing up while moving the feet up the wall independently, which is a huge advantage over conventional frogging, especially when rope isn't running through and would otherwise have to be pulled by gripping between the feet, since two-foot frogging against a wall with a single footloop does tend to end up with bruised toes. Also, being able to feel (or look to check) the rope has run through the Pantin, you *know* it will be pulled through the Croll, which is a great bonus when tired and ropes/jammers are dirty.

The big advantage is that the Pantin is a pure extra addition to a regular frog kit, and even when you're using it, you are free to move between all the possible ways of using it just by changing the pattern of leg and arm movements.
They're great in constricted pitches as well - just letting the chest jammer push the hand jammer above it, both hands can be freed for finding handholds, and small pumping steps with the right leg inch you slowly but surely upwards, or alternating small steps can be taken with both legs if the pitch allows hands to be on the hand jammer. They also make climbing off many pitchheads much easier, since you can climb much higher up .

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Thanks potholer,
I had been using the technique where you drop one foot out of the foot loop in order to push off the wall etc which means that one leg can sometimes get tired but I either swap feet or put both feet in the loop.

I had been thinking of trying out the rope walker as in the link but thought changing to / from frog to a ropewalker would require a bit of time and effort and if it wasn't a long pitch not much benefit. Your system is simpler and easier to change so I might try that. A friend in the club has a Pantin I might see if I can borrow it

I have made my own chest harness and it works well enough that I only need to clamp / pull the tail of the rope for the first couple of metres, provided my gear isn't tangled around the rope . So clamping or pulling the rope is not a huge issue (caves have been reasonably clean so far though).