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Crockett wrote:Is "Sit Stand" in the vertical contest a classic (or modified) frog system with mechanical ascenders?

My grandson thinks he wants to compete so we are practicing beyond the typical rope walker with frog and knots.

Getting a frog system adjusted for a small person is a challenge. We found some success replacing the chest harness (I have tried 3 different styles on him) with a bungee cord over the shoulder (Pup style?) and then just as a bungee cord loop around his neck with some shielding. Any opinions or advice about Pup style? Any additional ideas?

One more question for you contest experts: is a Mitchell system allowed in the mechanical competition? I assume yes but you never know. I read the rules online and they made my head spin.

Color this with the enthusiasm of a 10 year old. I have explained that it is a fun way to be ready to go places on a rope, not an end in itself. He is likely to lose interest in the vertical competition upon his first encounter with the JSS.

Crockett wrote:Is "Sit Stand" in the vertical contest a classic (or modified) frog system with mechanical ascenders?

My grandson thinks he wants to compete so we are practicing beyond the typical rope walker with frog and knots.

Getting a frog system adjusted for a small person is a challenge. We found some success replacing the chest harness (I have tried 3 different styles on him) with a bungee cord over the shoulder (Pup style?) and then just as a bungee cord loop around his neck with some shielding. Any opinions or advice about Pup style? Any additional ideas?

One more question for you contest experts: is a Mitchell system allowed in the mechanical competition? I assume yes but you never know. I read the rules online and they made my head spin.

Color this with the enthusiasm of a 10 year old. I have explained that it is a fun way to be ready to go places on a rope, not an end in itself. He is likely to lose interest in the vertical competition upon his first encounter with the JSS.

Chads93GT wrote:I take it by not using the traditional harness, and using the bungee, requires more core strength yes? Afterall, ive always had to wrench the harness down to keep the croll from flopping, this keeps me closer to the rope without trying, but also makes so i cant stand up once i get off rope without loosening the harness.

UnderGroundEarth wrote:The Pup's Pal that Bruce at On Rope 1 sells was actually invented by Jason Hardy. Jason designed it a few years ago at a caving event using a bungee he bought from Bruce and 1/2" webbing he bought from Howie. Pup wanted one and built one too. Bruce then dubbed it the Pup's Pal and now sells it with a 1" webbing on it. Jason actually doesn't recommend using it for beginners.

Tim White wrote:Trying not to get but there is very little being "invented" in the vertical rope world today that is original. Good ideas that are improvements on older inventions. Sometimes the “inventions” are ideas and techniques that were tried before and abandoned for good reasons.

Take a look at the Nylon Highway archives and there you will find many old and what you may think are new inventions or techniques that were developed long ago.

NZcaver wrote:Back in 2003 I noticed another caver using a simple bungy loop around the neck in place of a regular frog chest harness/loop. It seemed like a good idea at the time, so naturally I copied it. Other friends also liked this design, so I made up a handful of these cheap loops for them. My versions used elastic bungy cord inside tubular webbing, tied in a loop with a small brass spring clip to attach to the top of the Croll.

The neck loop concept is small, light, cheap and works pretty well, but there are a couple of caveats you should know about. If you're climbing with a heavy pack (eg multi-day trip, lots of camera gear, rope bags, etc), you will lose efficiency big-time. As you stand up, the bungy will stretch because of the weight of extra equipment hanging off your central screw link. Therefore the Croll will only move up the rope a small amount with every climb stroke. From personal experience, I can assure you this is rather tiresome and frustrating. The second caveat is if you ever need to lift a person's weight during a pickoff, the bungy will most likely make that impossible for the same reason. Both of these issues can be worked around by using a length of webbing or cord to tie a "real" chest harness if/when you need one.

Another personal preference consideration is whether you like your frog chest harness to provide a little back support for you while you climb. The bungy option provides no real support. The old figure 8 loop isn't much better, and although popular it is notoriously uncomfortable for many people. The H-strap GGG etc designs seem to do better, but they don't suit everybody. I ended up phasing out my bungy loop after about a year or so of use, and made sure the cavers who had them were aware of the above caveats.