Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby GroundquestMSA » Feb 21, 2012 7:16 pm

Chads93GT wrote:Yahtaa wrote:
That sounds absolutely terrifying.

Its not, Its how you get past horribly undercut lips. Its either that or you rappel to the lip, plant your feet, pivot on your feet till your legs are perpendicular with the ground and you jump out while rappelling quickly, on the swing back you swing under the lip. THAT is scary ;)


And it doesn't work well with a rack. At least not for me. I use that method with an 8, above ground, just for fun.

Chads93GT wrote:Using your feet as a pivot point, keeping yoru legs straight, and rapelling past the lip till you can flip under it is the easiest and safest way. yOu dont grind metal, you dont lose bars, you dont grind your hip/harness into the rock as you slide past, its a very fluent and controlled movement with no abrasion possibility.


I agree, but wonder why the legs must be kept straight? I sometimes do the same thing but I squat and plant my feet on the lip. I can "stand up" while inverted if I need to rappel a little further, or go ahead and and flip back over if I've gone far enough to avoid mashing the rack on the rocks. Perhaps I do so because I don't deal with such situations often and it feels a little more secure (aka less scary).
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby Chads93GT » Feb 21, 2012 8:40 pm

Keeping the legs straight as a newcomer to this method ensures your face won't smAsh into the lip when you flip forward. Modify method as you see fit once you realize why it's done of course. Freaks me out too lol
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby NZcaver » Feb 21, 2012 9:19 pm

Youtube is full of fun clips! :woohoo:

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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby Scott McCrea » Feb 21, 2012 9:42 pm

That's awesome! He did it correctly, too. Well, as correct as it can be. Butt slams are exciting, but fairly safe.

That looks like the Falls of Hills Creek in Pocahontas County, WV. I did that several years ago. By far the most difficult lip I have ever done. The top is slick as greased owl snot. There is no where close to rig, thus the crazy redirect in the video.

The only thing that I learned that might help in this situation is that momentum can make things a little smoother. The dude in this video creeped down slowly. I found that if I just started off zinging it, I wouldn't even butt slam. But zinging from the start introduces a whole new set of problems. It is safer to just do the butt slam.
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby Chads93GT » Feb 21, 2012 10:04 pm

Lol thanks for finding that. Good laugh. Exactly what I was describing but not as dramatic
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby cavemud2 » Feb 22, 2012 8:13 am

Chads93GT wrote:Plant feet at the lip and continue to let rope through rack.
As you invert completely upside down, you then let you feet slip off the rock
This flips you back vertical, and this also keeps your face from smashing into the lip.
rappel to the ground. keep your legs straight and stiff the entire time when using yoru feet as a pivot point.


This is how i do it if im using a 18 or 24'' rack. There is one drop we do on Seneca that has a nasty lip, and i do what Chad was explaining. Its really not that scary rappelling down, its the coming back up over them thats the tricky part. Having 2 handled ascenders helps me pass nasty lips while climbing as i just use my upper body to pull me up over it. As Jeff said with the figure 8. Alot of times if its below 100' i use a Figure 8. I like the stainless rescue 8's. I am 230 and i almost always use 5 bars when im using my 18 or 12'' rack. I say almost because if your on a brand new rope like i was not long ago, you will want that last bar. Old muddy nasty ropes tend to ride slower than nice shiny rope. Like others have said, there will be some lips that are just plain nasty and youll cuss everytime you have to do em. I
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby Mike Rz » Feb 22, 2012 9:41 am

Well, I finally got my 15 min. of fame. That video was recorded in Carter County, Kentucky. The video illustrates why you want the rig point to be as high as possible. When the rope goes parallel to the legs (about second 21) the forces on your legs go sky high. A millisecond after that the whole thing collapses. If the rig point was higher you could continue to pivot about your feet until your repelling device is lower than the lip. At that point you can just bend your legs and enjoy a leisurely swing on the rope.
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby Cody JW » Feb 22, 2012 1:56 pm

One thing us big boys have to consider when using the method in the video is that we tip over backwards much sooner than most. If you are barrel chested and have a high center of gravity you might want to keep that in mind. I have to use alternative methods on longer drops just to keep myself upright on longer rappels or I will wear my arms out trying to keep myself from tipping backwards. One size does not always fit all. I have done many undercut lips and never had to resort to the method in the video. If you are tall and thin or just thin it may be the easiest way. With my upper body weight I would not attempt it. Never had to in 26 years of vertical, no reason to start now.
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby dutchcontractor » Mar 5, 2012 9:27 pm

Chads93GT wrote:
Yahtaa wrote:That sounds absolutely terrifying. :yikes:


Its not, Its how you get past horribly undercut lips. Its either that or you rappel to the lip, plant your feet, pivot on your feet till your legs are perpendicular with the ground and you jump out while rappelling quickly, on the swing back you swing under the lip. THAT is scary ;)

Using your feet as a pivot point, keeping yoru legs straight, and rapelling past the lip till you can flip under it is the easiest and safest way. yOu dont grind metal, you dont lose bars, you dont grind your hip/harness into the rock as you slide past, its a very fluent and controlled movement with no abrasion possibility. Everyone on the team I watched over at bridge day rappelled past the iron girders at the W plate like this.


For reason it's scarier at 200 feet of the ground than at 50 but it's definitely the way to get past a nasty lip. The onrope book has a nice illustration on how to do it.
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby Patrick Wilson » Mar 12, 2012 10:23 am

Great example of a terribly undercut lip -- War Eagle!!

That was my first truly nothing-under-it lip, and I was still a bit new to deep pits when I did it. I tried to "knee" my way down past the lip, which ended up smashing me closer to the flowstone than I cared to be, and a little bit of metal got grinded in the process. All in all, I made it down safely and it was a valuable learning experience. You definitely want to get comfortable with that situation above ground, then you'll have a much easier, and much SAFER time during the real thing!
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby nathanroser » Mar 22, 2012 9:21 pm

Having an etrier tied can help big time going over a nasty lip. I went down the Dome Drop in Harper's Pit in Germany Valley and that thing puts the rope down into an overhung fissure so you're coming back up with the rope going into an impassable crack above you. I would not have gotten out of that without some webbing to pull on.
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby chh » Mar 23, 2012 8:02 am

That video is classic! That guy butt slammed with AUTHORITY. The slickness quotient is usually what gets you on an undercut lip. Everything is going along just fine and then your boots scoot out and your perspective on the world suddenly changes. With good traction, it's really not bad.
And, I agree with scott. A little momentum will save your bum. I usually just plant my legs and rappel to the point where I'm like, "dang, this is awkward" and then I just sort of hop past the lip. Knowing your desceder is absolutely key here, as is letting a little rope through the device as you "hop". If you can't let a little rope through, your face might get real familiar with the lip, which is why you want to get good doing it statically before you try doing it with momentum.
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Re: Getting past a sharp pitch/lip on a rack

Postby chh » Mar 23, 2012 8:12 am

Mike Rz wrote:Well, I finally got my 15 min. of fame. That video was recorded in Carter County, Kentucky. The video illustrates why you want the rig point to be as high as possible. When the rope goes parallel to the legs (about second 21) the forces on your legs go sky high. A millisecond after that the whole thing collapses. If the rig point was higher you could continue to pivot about your feet until your repelling device is lower than the lip. At that point you can just bend your legs and enjoy a leisurely swing on the rope.


Hey Mike, you mind if I ask where in Carter County you were? Were you in the park? I don't recognize that falls. I was just talking with some friends in that neck of the woods about negotiating undercut lips. Looks like that would be a good one to go and practice on. You can PM me.
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