Petzl basic maillon size

Discuss vertical caving, equipment, & techniques. Also visit the NSS Vertical Section.

Moderator: Tim White

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby NZcaver » Feb 4, 2012 2:03 am

drown wrote:For those who are clipping both into the large hole, is there enough room for a maillon and biner and still remain flexible enough.

In my experience, both in the same hole tends to be a tight fit with most carabiner/maillon combinations and can bind up.
User avatar
NZcaver
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 6316
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 2:05 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Name: Jansen
NSS #: 50665RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: CCG
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby ek » Apr 19, 2012 3:08 pm

Extremeophile wrote:Not sure what the intended purpose of that small hole is, but probably not for attaching a maillon. As NZ said, perhaps a small cord, but for what purpose is unclear.

When you use the Basic as an upper ascender in a frog system (or a lower ascender in a Texas system), you can tie a cord footloop to this small hole. That's what I do (for my frog system). 5 mm Spectra works well for this, though it's hard to find in the US these days. (Thin nylon cords tend to be too stretchy to be good as footloops.)
Eliah Kagan
NSS 57892
Syracuse University Outing Club

Fund vital White Nose Syndrome research--donate to the NSS and select the WNS Rapid Response Fund.
Facebook users can also donate here.
User avatar
ek
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Apr 3, 2007 2:45 am
Location: Syracuse, NY
Name: Eliah Kagan
NSS #: 57892
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby PeterFJohnson » Apr 25, 2012 2:46 pm

ek wrote:5 mm Spectra works well for this, though it's hard to find in the US these days.


Try Blue Water Titan Cord or if you are really a number-f**ker and think Dyneema is too stretchy try Samson Ultra Tech.

Both are available in the US as they are made by US companies. There are other ones too I am sure. I know the Bluewater is 5.5mm so it might not fit in the Basic's smaller hole. They also sell a pre made adjustable foot loop assembly using 5mm titan. It is under "accessories" on their website.
User avatar
PeterFJohnson
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Nov 12, 2010 6:29 pm
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Grotto + GVKS
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby LukeM » Apr 25, 2012 3:13 pm

I use a Dyneema cord - Samson Amsteel Blue - for my footloop. Purchased it locally from West Marine. It's a non-sheathed single braid cord, but it has held up well and served its purpose. West Marine also carries a number of other Dyneema and Spectra cords of varying types, though they don't carry the Ultra Tech that Peter pointed out.
User avatar
LukeM
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 705
Joined: Jan 30, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: Albany, NY
Name: Luke Mazza
NSS #: 59317
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby ek » Apr 26, 2012 10:45 am

PeterFJohnson wrote:Try Blue Water Titan Cord or if you are really a number-f**ker and think Dyneema is too stretchy try Samson Ultra Tech.

This is certainly the first I've heard of the idea that Spectra is more static than Dyneema.

Spectra and Dyneema are two trademarked brandings of the same material, which also has two generic names: HMPE (high modulus polyethylene) and UHWMPE (ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene). Since Spectra and Dyneema are the same material, it seems unlikely that one would be stretchier than the other. Since the fibers are produced by different manufacturers, I suppose there could be a difference in the production process that would yield a slight difference, but I have not heard of one. Do you have data to support the idea that HMPE/UHWMPE called Spectra is stretchier than HMPE/UHWMPE called Dyneema?

The Ultra Tech cord is made of Technora, which might be even more static than Dyneema/Spectra. (It doesn't matter though--once you get as static as Spectra/Dyneema, I doubt there's any benefit to going more static in a footloop. The amount of energy from your climbing step going into stretching the footloop should be insignificant with Spectra/Dyneema.) Unfortunately, Technora is slightly heavier! :tonguecheek:

(If I had Technora cord of the right diameter and needed to make a footloop, I would use it for that purpose without hesitation.)

PeterFJohnson wrote:Both are available in the US as they are made by US companies. There are other ones too I am sure. I know the Bluewater is 5.5mm so it might not fit in the Basic's smaller hole. They also sell a pre made adjustable foot loop assembly using 5mm titan. It is under "accessories" on their website.

Can you provide a link to the 5 mm Titan footloop assembly? I'm looking at accessories and accessory cords and I'm not finding it on either page.

Unfortunately the BlueWater Ropes website it set up so that the URL in your browser's address bar does not normally change as you navigate to different parts of the site. But if you right-click (or Control-click, on macs with one-button mice) on a link and open it in a new tab or a new window, then the new tab or window should show the correct URL of the page it contains.

I'm particularly interested to know the actual diameter of the Titan cord (which is a combination of Dyneema and nylon, and should be about as static as Dyneema by itself) in the footloop assembly. As you've alluded to, Titan cord with "5 mm" in its name is actually 5.5 mm in diameter (explained here).
Eliah Kagan
NSS 57892
Syracuse University Outing Club

Fund vital White Nose Syndrome research--donate to the NSS and select the WNS Rapid Response Fund.
Facebook users can also donate here.
User avatar
ek
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Apr 3, 2007 2:45 am
Location: Syracuse, NY
Name: Eliah Kagan
NSS #: 57892
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby LukeM » Apr 26, 2012 12:32 pm

Here you go Eliah. It's under Work and Rescue -> Accessories.
User avatar
LukeM
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 705
Joined: Jan 30, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: Albany, NY
Name: Luke Mazza
NSS #: 59317
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby ek » Apr 26, 2012 12:44 pm

Thanks!
Eliah Kagan
NSS 57892
Syracuse University Outing Club

Fund vital White Nose Syndrome research--donate to the NSS and select the WNS Rapid Response Fund.
Facebook users can also donate here.
User avatar
ek
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Apr 3, 2007 2:45 am
Location: Syracuse, NY
Name: Eliah Kagan
NSS #: 57892
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby PeterFJohnson » Apr 26, 2012 2:07 pm

ek wrote:
PeterFJohnson wrote:Try Blue Water Titan Cord or if you are really a number-f**ker and think Dyneema is too stretchy try Samson Ultra Tech.


This is certainly the first I've heard of the idea that Spectra is more static than Dyneema.

Spectra and Dyneema are two trademarked brandings of the same material, which also has two generic names: HMPE (high modulus polyethylene) and UHWMPE (ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene). Since Spectra and Dyneema are the same material, it seems unlikely that one would be stretchier than the other. Since the fibers are produced by different manufacturers, I suppose there could be a difference in the production process that would yield a slight difference, but I have not heard of one. Do you have data to support the idea that HMPE/UHWMPE called Spectra is stretchier than HMPE/UHWMPE called Dyneema?


I never said there was a difference between Spectra and Dyneema, so no, I don't have data to support that idea.
User avatar
PeterFJohnson
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Nov 12, 2010 6:29 pm
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Grotto + GVKS
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby PeterFJohnson » Apr 26, 2012 2:13 pm

Oh and also, if you are looking for something smaller than 5mm and don't mind going with something braided instead of kernmantle, Sampson makes Tech-12 and Amsteel in smaller diameters. The breaking strength on Tech-12 is pretty impressive. In some cases it is actually stronger than some similar diameter wire rope/steel cable.

EK, Thanks for the heads up about how to pull a link from a website like blue water's. I would have linked the first time but ran into the problem you described.
User avatar
PeterFJohnson
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Nov 12, 2010 6:29 pm
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Grotto + GVKS
  

Re: Petzl basic maillon size

Postby driggs » May 5, 2012 11:24 am

My digital calipers show the Petzl Basic's "hole for etrier" having a diameter of 6mm.

The handled Petzl Ascension's "hole for etrier" is 10mm in diameter.
User avatar
driggs
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Sep 12, 2005 9:40 pm
Location: State of Jefferson
Name: David A. Riggs
NSS #: 56189
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Monongahela
  

Previous

Return to On Rope!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users