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Anyone ever use one of these? I'm finding it's design very attractive. Can belay or rappel single or double ropes, stays attached to harness, can hold 600lbs with two fingers, available in stainless for virtually no wear and minimal heat buildup. Weighs slightly more than a stop.

Conterra ran a mile of rope through this thing and it maintained a safe temp.

What are your thoughts?

Previous forum topic including discussion of the Scarab here.

NZcaver wrote:Previous forum topic including discussion of the Scarab here.

I swear I searched for it here and nothing came up! Lol

I Think this thing has alot of potential. The versatility of a rack but much simpler and smaller.

Comparing the stainless version of this to a micro rack the weights aren't that different. I wonder how they differ in versatility. The Ti version would be nice.

The ti version would be nice but I think it would wear quickly with a dirty rope. The stainless version being about the weight of a stop is fine for me. This thing is versatile. Just pop a bight through, trap the bar, and hook the top horn. If u need additional friction just wrap another horn. Very easy to add friction Amd lock off.

Can anyone hear provide us with a review??

I'm not keen on devices where the rope rubs directly on the frame. Sooner or later it will get cut in half and on ropes with any grit it will be much sooner. Rack bars are cheap to replace when worn out. Just my opinion.

Caver John wrote:The ti version would be nice but I think it would wear quickly with a dirty rope. The stainless version being about the weight of a stop is fine for me. This thing is versatile. Just pop a bight through, trap the bar, and hook the top horn. If u need additional friction just wrap another horn. Very easy to add friction Amd lock off.

Can anyone hear provide us with a review??

If you wrap too many horns will people complain about the twist in the rope like they do an 8 ?? It does look kind of neat, I like small compact devices for short drops. Chad, if I see too much wear on the frame of my 8 I replace it . If it is steel it will take time to wear any grooves if it is anything like the steel 8.

They say this does not twist the rope at all, as far as rubbing onthe frame, like I said before, they ran a mile of dirty rope through this thing and no wear(stainless model).

Caver John wrote:They say this does not twist the rope at all, as far as rubbing onthe frame, like I said before, they ran a mile of dirty rope through this thing and no wear(stainless model).

Any time a rappel device forms a loop in the rope, there will be twisting. A rope must be twisted to form a loop. Racks, bobbins, ATC's, etc use bites of rope. Fig 8, micro-racks, Scarabs, munter hitch, etc use loops of rope. Note that racks/micro racks with hyperbars form a loop in the rope when the rope goes over it while rappelling. If you are wondering how much different devices twist ropes, I did some testing.

Caver John wrote:They say this does not twist the rope at all, as far as rubbing onthe frame, like I said before, they ran a mile of dirty rope through this thing and no wear(stainless model).

I highly doubt the accuracy of that claim. I bought a new SMC
Micro rack and did two 120' drops on our project cave and the
Rope was completely mud caked from the dome climb. When I
Got home and cleaned my rack, all four bars had a groove over
1/16" in depth. I highly doubt their rope was very dirty. Either
That or SMC uses Chinese steel.

Any time a rappel device forms a loop in the rope, there will be twisting. A rope must be twisted to form a loop. Racks, bobbins, ATC's, etc use bites of rope. Fig 8, micro-racks, Scarabs, munter hitch, etc use loops of rope. Note that racks/micro racks with hyperbars form a loop in the rope when the rope goes over it while rappelling. If you are wondering how much different devices twist ropes, I did some testing.

If you look online at a picture of the scarab with rope running through it, the rope path takes the same "double bite" form as a stop. If you use an extra horn, it's the same as using a break Biner on the stop.

There's no loop of rope, just bites. Unless u wrap a third horn, then u have a loop.

http://www.conterra-inc.com/images/thum ... abbig1.jpg

This is actually incorrect; it is, indeed, a loop of rope. See here (http://www.conterra-inc.com/images/deta ... bready.jpg) and here (http://www.conterra-inc.com/images/deta ... abbig1.jpg).

It's exactly the same situation you see when you run a rope over a hyperbar, as Scott explained. Using multiple "horns," as shown here (http://www.conterra-inc.com/images/deta ... abwrap.jpg), would appear to twist the rope horribly. Likewise, this double-rope method involving two horns looks like a mess waiting to happen (http://www.conterra-inc.com/images/deta ... arabII.jpg).

This thing reminds me of a big, stainless steel version of the Petzl Pirana, the primary difference being the large tube-shaped wear surface in the center; where the Pirana is based on an 8, this appears to be based on a rack or a brake-tube style descender. While stainless steel descenders can certainly be more viable for caving than aluminum ones like the Pirana, adding a half-dozen "additional friction" options doesn't necessarily sidestep certain limitations. A rack with eight hyperbars is still, fundamentally, a rack.

Braking carabiners used in conjuntion with a bobbin descender are a different animal; a standard "carabiner next to bobbin" approach won't twist the rope, but I suspect using a Freino might twist it a bit.

I have posted this before but I have never had much of a problem with the 8 twisting the rope. Any undesirable effects from it have not been an issue for me. With all the short drops here in Indiana I use the steel 8 a lot, it seems it takes a long time for grooves to wear in the steel 8. Not sure if the Scarab is the same kind of steel as the 8 ?? I have a rack but do not use it unless I go to TAG. It seems the steel on the solid steel bars wear faster than the steel on the 8. I notice the steel bars on the micro rack seems to wear faster than then bars on the regular rack. Wonder if any of you can come up with any comparisons or tests on the steel in the 8 vs the steel in the micro bars vs steel in the standard rack bars.

Post deleted.

Upon further investigation, I suppose there is a loop there.
Funny that the website specifically says won't twist rope.
I've seen cOmpanies talk up there products before but usually regarding rescue gear there's more honesty.

That review has no cOmmemts regarding it's funtionality or twist.
Good site though.