High Rise Escape Device

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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby VACaver » Aug 31, 2011 2:34 pm

Caver John wrote:My only concern would be initiating the descent and then Having the Kevlar cord melt through. I never thought I'd say this , but maybe cable would be better, or some sort of aramid fiber


Kevlar will not melt.
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby NZcaver » Aug 31, 2011 2:35 pm

Sungura wrote:...But like, as jansen suggested he wears it in highrises or whatever (joke or not, I can't tell if he was joking)...

I was joking about that. I normally use the elevator or stairs. :wink: Those kits are primarily designed for firefighters who may need to escape quickly from upper floors or roofs of multi-story (but not usually huge high-rise) buildings. I'm assuming any mass transit system like the Rescue Reel would need to be pre-rigged.
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby pub » Aug 31, 2011 6:08 pm

The video may answer some of the previous questions:
Balincaguin comes from the Zambal phrase, "Bali lan caguing" meaning "house of bats."
This was the former name of the Municipality of Mabini, Pangasinan, when it was part of the Province of Zambales (of Mt. Pinatubo Volcano fame).
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby VACaver » Aug 31, 2011 7:19 pm

One side effect...you'd better be quick with it or someone will try and take it away from you.
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby DeanWiseman » Sep 1, 2011 11:58 am

Sungura wrote:I'm curious about what it's anchored to up top. It must be pre-rigged? I mean let's think...in the situations such a thing would be used in, would be full of panic. I could easily see people slinging it around themselves barely checking to see if they were in the harness properly and totally forget to rig it! So...no better than a freefall again. But where would you anchor a jizzilion of these in a highrise? Would there be enough windows/space for everyone on that floor? If there wasn't one for everyone, again issues with panic...people fighting over them, fighting each other to get them on, people running into each other while they are rappelling down? I'm just curious how those sorts of problems will be avoided.


Doesn't require much, or hardly any space to rig... nor does the rig point really need to be completely bomber--maybe enough for 5x body weight would almost certainly do the trick (unlike a normal rig, which we're talking 20-30x or more). And, yes, they would be pre-rigged. Remember, these things are basically set up for a one-use, one-way trip... so if lines cross or tangle, it's a complete non-issue.

Can't speak to the fighting issue. :argue: :boxing: :shrug:

As far as "strearic hindrance" on the way down, I sincerely doubt that would be a problem. It's an auto-descender, so everyone would be moving at the same speed, or nearly so, so impacts, if any, would be negligible. Again, it's a one-use, one-way trip. You're just trying to get down to the ground alive and in one piece. The aesthetics go out the window, as it were...


-Dean
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby Cody JW » Sep 1, 2011 3:10 pm

I am amazed at the one shown in the U-Tube video, the ad says that one is for a 30 story building. I am assuming it has at least 300 feet or cord ( likely more) and the whole device is a small as it is. Just think how big a similar device that had 300 ft. of PMI pit rope or similar in it would be. I suspect it was a challenge to the designers to come up with a device like that and make it compact . The key to that device I suspect was coming up with the Kevlar cord and winding it up so it will be reasonably compact. We have all carried 300 feet of PMI up a monster hill and know hoe big that bundle is.
It only takes one person to surrender a dog to a kill shelter ,but it takes many to rescue it.
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby pub » Sep 1, 2011 7:52 pm

The company would definitely have a market if these become a requirement like fire extinguishers, life jackets, lifeboats, sprinkler systems, etc. Then there’s the service for recharging the units.

Now, if the company can develop a descender that can be used on the cord after the first deployment, then a reel can service more than one person.
Balincaguin comes from the Zambal phrase, "Bali lan caguing" meaning "house of bats."
This was the former name of the Municipality of Mabini, Pangasinan, when it was part of the Province of Zambales (of Mt. Pinatubo Volcano fame).
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby NZcaver » Sep 1, 2011 9:32 pm

Cody JW wrote:I am amazed at the one shown in the U-Tube video, the ad says that one is for a 30 story building. I am assuming it has at least 300 feet or cord ( likely more) and the whole device is a small as it is. Just think how big a similar device that had 300 ft. of PMI pit rope or similar in it would be. I suspect it was a challenge to the designers to come up with a device like that and make it compact . The key to that device I suspect was coming up with the Kevlar cord and winding it up so it will be reasonably compact. We have all carried 300 feet of PMI up a monster hill and know hoe big that bundle is.

Yep. I know some cavers who decided to test that 5.5mm Spectra cord when it first came on the market. So instead of doing a little test in a tree or whatever, they allegedly rigged a 100m free hang pit, threaded the cord multiple wraps around a rack, and down they went.

Then they climbed out on it using Jumars. :yikes: They reported it was impressively static, but it "creaked" as they climbed. I think that was a one-time thing.
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby Cavernuke » Sep 6, 2011 7:29 pm

VACaver wrote:
Caver John wrote:My only concern would be initiating the descent and then Having the Kevlar cord melt through. I never thought I'd say this , but maybe cable would be better, or some sort of aramid fiber


Kevlar will not melt.


Yup. In fact, "Kevlar" and "Technora" are brand names for Aramid fibers.
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby gdstorrick » Sep 7, 2011 4:55 am

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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby gdstorrick » Sep 7, 2011 4:58 am

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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby DeanWiseman » Sep 7, 2011 8:25 am

gdstorrick wrote:How many people are in a skyscraper? If everyone needs one to get out, how many lines would there be? Where would you fit them all? Would people on the lower floors block those coming from above, or would they merely get laterally trampled instead?


Two things:

1.) This is not a mass escape system, but rather a high-end escape system for high-end clients.

2.) Depending on the strength of the rig point, you could theoretically lower as many people as the rig point can handle, and that you can clip lines to. Once someone's down, they're down. I would presume that to avoid entanglement, you simply leave the harness and equipment at the bottom close as possible to the side of the building. Trampled?? :shrug: Doubtful, seeing that as soon as one completed the descent, unless they're unconscious, I'm betting they're running top speed away from the building. Again, I would point out that the goal is not to get down pretty or even uninjured, but rather alive, and functional.

-Dean
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby gdstorrick » Sep 7, 2011 7:54 pm

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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby Scott McCrea » Sep 7, 2011 8:05 pm

gdstorrick wrote:
DeanWiseman wrote:This is not a mass escape system, but rather a high-end escape system for high-end clients.


That makes sense. Only the high-end clients have any need to survive.

Right, and there is no way some low-ender would push the the high-ender out the window and take the device for himself. (sarcasm)
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Re: High Rise Escape Device

Postby DeanWiseman » Sep 8, 2011 10:05 am

gdstorrick wrote:
DeanWiseman wrote:This is not a mass escape system, but rather a high-end escape system for high-end clients.


That makes sense. Only the high-end clients have any need to survive.


At this point anyway, only the high-end clients can afford it. But presumably, if enough early-adopters get it going, that lower price points will come along.

I still think this escape system has a far better option than other high-rise ideas, like the tubular fabric chute I once saw... or a parachute-based system.

-Dean
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