Rack users: Attachment

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How do you attach your rack to your harness maillon/omni/etc?

Carabiner
33
52%
Screwlink
23
36%
Directly
8
13%
 
Total votes : 64

Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Chads93GT » Aug 18, 2011 2:09 pm

Sungura wrote:Not sure if I should ask here or bump the other thread...but actually I think it was Chad who mentioned oiling carabiners?? Where are you doing that and why and what exactly do you use? I keep all my gear clean and all but should this oiling thing be something I regularly do as well?

Also I read through the entirty of the other topic linked and still do not see any mention of *which* mallions to use for rack attachment just "use the right one and right size"...uh that is so helpful. All this talk has made me think to change my own (I have a 'biner right now, which come to think of it in practice I did almost load the gate by accident as the screw-bit of the 'biner got caught up on the rack frame so now it's something I always check of habit but why not be safer to start with?) but I have yet to see any mention of *what* I should get. I have a few extra mallions (oval, can't remember the size) so I might even have one already for all I know. It wouldn't bother me to have the rack harder to take off of the halfround, I just clip it to the side or I've taken everything off, or just let it hang for short stints (haaa there is a benefit to being a girl!)


IN my first post of this thread I said 7mm rapide/maillion/screwlink. ONrope sells them. Why oil? to keep corrosion at bay in the moving parts, and to keep the steel snap rings in the locking biners (retainers fro the locker) from rusting. I use white lightning chain wax. Any kind of bike chain wax, bought at any bicycle shop will work. Oil and nylon......no thanks. It doesnt take much chain wax. I only relube them after I have gotten them so dirty I have had to pressure wash or hang wash gunk out of the moving parts, as usually the hot water will remove the remaining wax. I use it on ALL moving parts of all my ascending gear.

Letting the rack hang has nothing to do with being a boy or a girl, it has everything to do with the rack smacking the hell out of your thighs or the inside of your knees if you are shorter. Besides, if you trip and fall while its swinging you risk shoving the rack into your stomach. and even though it wont puncture you, it will cause serious internal inujries that can result in internal bleeding and death.

Years ago at a fair there was a super cross and one of th bikers wiped out hard and shoved his handle bar into his stomach. there was no puncture but it ripped him up inside bad and he had to have several feet of his small intestine removed.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby chh » Aug 18, 2011 9:52 pm

Oil won't hurt nylon. It's also made of petroleum. However, I use graphite. It's dry and I think works pretty well. It will make you dirty though if you use too much. I lube up my cams with graphite as well.
Also, I wouldn't use a clevis from the hardware store. Mine is stainless and rated for climbing applications.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby NZcaver » Aug 22, 2011 2:01 am

For what it's worth, I use a 10mm Zicral oval Maillon Rapide to connect my rack (usually my long micro) to my Petzl Omni Lock harness link.

I've never been a fan of direct connection, and I don't buy the "remove the extra link in the chain" argument in the case of the rack attachment. Too many good reasons to have the flexibility to tie your rack off to the side of the harness while ascending, or remove your rack from the system entirely while on rope if you need to deal with some rescue contingency, etc.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Amazingracer » Aug 22, 2011 9:14 am

NZcaver wrote:I've never been a fan of direct connection, and I don't buy the "remove the extra link in the chain" argument in the case of the rack attachment.


^^^^This. I have been told the same thing about the extra link in the chain but dont buy it either. I have a removable piece amongst all of my gear somewhere including ascenders, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Patrick Wilson » Aug 22, 2011 11:26 am

I have been using a SS half-round for my harness with an oval for rack attachment (can't recall the size). I recently purchased a Petzl Omni triact at OR1 and have been fighting between the options of if I want to stick with the oval or go back to the carabiner, which I used to use exclusively. I may just swap back and forth, depending on drop/trip length.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Extremeophile » Aug 22, 2011 6:07 pm

It's unfortunate that so many have voted "screwlink" and "carabiner" given the indisputable fact that direct connection is the correct answer. :big grin:
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Scott McCrea » Aug 22, 2011 6:54 pm

The correct answer is actually, "it depends." Removing a rack for any other reason than getting it out of the way is pretty rare and not worth worrying about. Direct connection with a micro rack or U shaped frame rack is fine. But racks with eyes should have another link in the chain to add some slop which is helpful for changeovers (especially with ropewalkers). Biners or screwlinks is mostly personal preference--both need to be checked every time during the rappel test.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Cavernuke » Aug 22, 2011 9:42 pm

I could say Carabiner or Mallion. I use a 'biner with the big 6-bar rack, and a mallion on the micro-rack.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby mgmills » Aug 23, 2011 8:28 am

Extremeophile wrote:It's unfortunate that so many have voted "screwlink" and "carabiner" given the indisputable fact that direct connection is the correct answer. :big grin:


LOL - obviously those responding to this poll don't agree with you Extremeophile. I think all options are OK. I've been using a carabiner since I started vertical caving in 1994. I have tried the screwlink and the direct connect and prefer the original method I used. I am very aware of the cross loading danger (as I did it once just after I had gotten to free hang past the lip). Now I'm just extra aware that is a potential problem and I check and recheck for orientation of the biner as I go over the edge.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby NZcaver » Aug 23, 2011 9:23 am

Scott McCrea wrote:Direct connection with a micro rack or U shaped frame rack is fine.

Not exactly. "It depends." :big grin:
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby LukeM » Aug 23, 2011 9:55 am

Sorry if this has been covered before but is there any case in which the maximum cross-loading strength of a carabiner could be exceeded while rappelling? (besides some sort of catastrophic rigging failure) Many carabiners have a minor axis strength strong enough to withstand lead falls in climbing, and yet more have shapes that help to prevent cross loading. I just don't see cross-loading as a serious thing to put very much worry into. I understand the danger of not locking a carabiner and "Sudden Accidental Disconnect", but not locking a carabiner is serious in *many* situations. Locking them is a habit I've already formed. If you have trouble remembering to lock carabiners then I would definitely understand wanting to use something else, but I'd also recommend taking a break from rigging ropes until you can form that habit.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Cody JW » Aug 23, 2011 3:52 pm

I have been vertical for 22 years and never have been in a situation where I have loaded the biner on the gate. I am sure it is possible but has never happened to me. On my frog rig I use a half moon quick link because the croll seems to work better with that on a frog. I prefer to use a biner because for me they are easier to manipulate , especially with gloves. With a ropewalker on big pits I like to use a biner to attach my rack. With a frog on shallow pits, I use a half moon that allows the croll to work better ( for me ). Done it for 22 years and I am still very much alive. Seen many others do the same and they are all still with us too.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby Lava » Aug 23, 2011 5:14 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:The correct answer is actually, "it depends." Removing a rack for any other reason than getting it out of the way is pretty rare and not worth worrying about. Direct connection with a micro rack or U shaped frame rack is fine. But racks with eyes should have another link in the chain to add some slop which is helpful for changeovers (especially with ropewalkers). Biners or screwlinks is mostly personal preference--both need to be checked every time during the rappel test.


I'm with Scott on this one. For me, the shorter my rappel device the better, especially when dealing with complex rigging and rebelays. That means direct connection.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby snoboy » Aug 24, 2011 9:29 pm

I don't use a rack, so not voting. I do connect my descender with a carabiner both recreational and at work.

Here's a couple scenarios to think about though:

1 - you are in an exposed location (ie don't want to remove harness) and you need your descender for a rescue, now!

2 - you are doing a pickoff rescue and things go sideways - you want to escape the system and get the hell out of there,

I know what system I would rather have.
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Re: Rack users: Attachment

Postby chh » Aug 25, 2011 8:54 pm

My upper ascender, footloop and descender are all on their own locking carabiner. That makes them all modular and able to be used for other things if necessary. Times I've carried them around this way: Bunches. Times I've actually had to use one of the components outside my climbing system: 3. Still worth the weight of 3 biners and the percieved risk in my opinion. I agree with snoboy. My descenders are always removable, but thankfully it's usually a comfort thing rather than an emergency thing. Attaching directly is just fine if that's the way you move through the cave best.
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