rope warning fake climbing rope

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rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby jsteve068 » Jun 19, 2011 12:03 pm

bought a couple of pcs of rope at at hardware / wholesale place . looks just like static rope
until you push the sheath back then you see the core is loose fibers ( one looks like blue paper towel twisted together.
they have this rope in many sizes and all popular climbing rope colors and marking . put it side by side your good rope it looks identical.

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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby Marduke » Jun 19, 2011 2:56 pm

If it's not marketed as climbing rope, then it's not fake then, is it?...
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby jsteve068 » Jun 19, 2011 4:19 pm

trying to maybe save someone from getting hurt . someone will buy some of this rope and use it
and it will end with bad results
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby Marduke » Jun 19, 2011 6:31 pm

The type of person who would buy this for climbing wouldn't even know actual climbing rope exists to know that this looks like it.

It's a non-issue.

Btw, kernmantle utility rope has been sold for decades, nothing new.
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby NZcaver » Jun 19, 2011 6:58 pm

Marduke wrote:The type of person who would buy this for climbing wouldn't even know actual climbing rope exists to know that this looks like it.

It's a non-issue.

Not necessarily true, and I don't agree it's a "non issue." If this topic educates even one person, it was worth Steve posting it. (Steve, I edited your post so people can see the photos here without having to click the links. When you can, please post the link to the actual product listing.)

I recall a warning going out to cavers a couple of years ago about imitation/unrated rope which was the same color coding as dynamic climbing ropes made by PMI. There was some discussion about whether this could be a patent infringement, or just a misleading and potentially dangerous practice. I thought this was on the forum, but can't seem to find it. It might have been a grotto email group thing.

The stuff Steve found certainly looks to me like rated static rope on the outside even if it obviously feels different in the hand. It's debatable whether "fake climbing rope" is an apt description, but I really hope that rope comes with a dummy-proof tag/disclaimer which clearly states "not for climbing." If it were to be labelled, marketed or implied to be a rated life safety product, that would be very bad.
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby Stridergdm » Jun 20, 2011 7:49 am

I've seen this rope. I've bought this rope. I've used this rope.

It's clearly not climbing rope in any way.

And it even sort of sucks for the usage it's intended for. (I used it to pull out some posts among other things).
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby Scott McCrea » Jun 20, 2011 7:59 am

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

Someone, somewhere will use this stuff for life support. I've seen much worse in the bottom of some pits—garden hose, antenna wire, extension cords, water skiing rope.
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby jsteve068 » Jun 20, 2011 10:17 am

some still do not understand . this is not something you get at your local hardware store off a spool . this is all done up like factory ends (short pcs of rope left on the end Of a spool )
without cutting rope you CAN not tell the difference feels like static rope .
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby rlboyce » Jun 20, 2011 11:16 am

Moral of the story: buy climbing rope from reputable sporting goods sources that is clearly identified as climbing rope. Buying rope (with the intention of using it for climbing) from a hardware store without rope specifications clearly stated is very foolish, and in many scenarios quite deadly.

Strictly opinion: The majority of cavers would find this to be of the simplest form of common sense. The majority of spelunkers, on the other hand, might not see an issue in using this rope. The dangers are lessened if it's just being used for a hand line, but of course strong rope is still advisable even for that. It's debatable how effective it would be to send out a Cavechat warning about hardware store rope, but there is little harm in sending a warning anyway. This is why it really makes a difference for us cavers to take every opportunity to invite spelunkers to Grotto meetings and to teach them safe techniques. Catch them when they're young... and still alive.
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby rlboyce » Jun 20, 2011 11:30 am

It looks like a duck, but it certainly doesn't quack or swim like one. The people who would use this rope are those who see a duck, but aren't aware that it should be quacking and swimming too. IMO, the knowledge to look for "swimming and quacking" is gained by surrounding yourself with other people who know better and can tell you that you need to be looking for the swimming and quacking too. Otherwise, you may simply not know any better and you'll be bringing a decoy to the dinner table instead of the real thing.

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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby caverdan » Jun 20, 2011 1:00 pm

Looks like loaner rope to me..... :big grin: :big grin: :big grin: :big grin: :big grin: :yikes:
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby Anonymous_Coward » Jun 20, 2011 1:07 pm

I think some of you are missing Steve's point.

He is not worried that smug, elite cavers like yourself are going to run out to the hardware store and buy some of this. The danger lies in the fact that it looks and feels like static cave rope. If you came across this as a rigged line in a cave, you might not be able to tell the difference. That, or your buddy that is not as smart as you brings some of this along on a cave trip. If it really looks and feels like the real thing, you could use this in a SRT situation without knowing it.\

I for one thank Steve for bringing this to our attention. Hopefully it really will be a "non-issue" for all of us.
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby jsteve068 » Jun 20, 2011 1:23 pm

Anonymous_Coward wrote:I think some of you are missing Steve's point.

He is not worried that smug, elite cavers like yourself are going to run out to the hardware store and buy some of this. The danger lies in the fact that it looks and feels like static cave rope. If you came across this as a rigged line in a cave, you might not be able to tell the difference. That, or your buddy that is not as smart as you brings some of this along on a cave trip. If it really looks and feels like the real thing, you could use this in a SRT situation without knowing it.\

I for one thank Steve for bringing this to our attention. Hopefully it really will be a "non-issue" for all of us.

Thanks thats exactly what i wanted to get across
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby Marduke » Jun 20, 2011 2:37 pm

Anonymous_Coward wrote:He is not worried that smug, elite cavers like yourself


Where does this attitude come from? Since when does knowledge and experience mean smug and elite? This is the same anti-science and anti-education sentiment you see in the general public. It makes absolutely no sense!

Gained knowledge and experience is a GOOD thing, not something to be looked down upon.

As for this rope, anyone who is so full of themselves that they feel they don't need to learn what real climbing rope is, they deserve their fate. Natural selection always wins...
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Re: rope warning fake climbing rope

Postby Extremeophile » Jun 20, 2011 3:27 pm

caverdan wrote:Looks like loaner rope to me..... :big grin: :big grin: :big grin: :big grin: :big grin: :yikes:

All this talk about the fact that experienced cavers could never possibly mistake this as "real" rope is interesting. I certainly hope people don't seriously believe anyone that isn't experienced enough to know the difference deserves to be injured or killed. I know of at least one serious injury (broken back) that was the result of using a clothes line as a hand line.

Dan, was it not recently discovered that kernmantle "tow rope" had been rigged in Narrows cave? I understood that it looked like 11 mm climbing rope on the outside, but that the core was some sort of multi-colored filament. Apparently the core had failed and only the sheath was holding the thing together. When they replaced the rope it was discovered that it wasn't a proper rope. I believe I used it myself just a month ago and nothing appeared unusual.
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