Rigging racks backwards - Does this really happen?

[PeterFJohnson]

I had to look it up. In case anyone else is wondering: Scarab. Also. As well.

Not to be confused with the Device Formerly Known As The Scarab:



More info here(Thanks as always to Mr. Storrick):

http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Rappel/BobbinPages/SBobbin1013.html

[botkin02]

The scarab looks really interesting. There's a set of videos in one the previous poster's links showing how it works. I've got to say though, it doesn't look that complicated for a simple rappel, you just pop a bight of rope through and then wrap on one of the upper horns. It actually looks quite adaptable for such a simple device, it's pretty ingenious really. Does anyone have any field experience using this thing?

[AMF]

The Scarab doesn't look much different from the classic brake-bar-on-'biner rap device that I learned on... only specifically designed for that purpose. The horns provide the added friction that we got from chaining the 'biners together.

[Anonymous_Coward]

I'm the sixth poster in this thread, but it's been a while and my Cavechat etiquette is rusty -- is the sixth poster the one who starts a fight, or the one who hopelessly derails the topic?

Jeff, you are so out of touch. These days the sixth poster is the one that rails passionately against the federal government and reminds you that they have dropped their NSS membership because of WNS, Birkhimer, and the NSS HQ.

[Anonymous_Coward]

I also need to soften the language in my original post. I didn't mean to imply that someone that has done this has no business caving. Obviously this has happened to some pretty experienced cavers, and could conceivably happen to me. As stated many times already in this thread, as long as we all use the rappel test, EVERY TIME, we should be alright.

Still no pile of dead bodies on this one. Hmmmm, very interesting.

[wyandottecaver]

well.....

the fact is there aren't piles of dead bodies for anything. Serious caving accidents are rare even for stuff like flooding, falls from rope, entrapment etc. Of course in this case there may not even be *A* body.

[Anonymous_Coward]

well.....

the fact is there aren't piles of dead bodies for anything. Serious caving accidents are rare even for stuff like flooding, falls from rope, entrapment etc. Of course in this case there may not even be *A* body.

Not sure I agree, Todd. Of course "pile of dead bodies" is just a figure of speech, and perhaps one that is in poor taste, but it does illustrate the point quite well. I would argue that there is a medium-sized pile from flooding and falls, and at least a small pile from entrapment.

Unless someone pipes up, so far not even an injury from the dreaded backwards rack.

[Marduke]

well.....

the fact is there aren't piles of dead bodies for anything. Serious caving accidents are rare even for stuff like flooding, falls from rope, entrapment etc. Of course in this case there may not even be *A* body.

Not sure I agree, Todd. Of course "pile of dead bodies" is just a figure of speech, and perhaps one that is in poor taste, but it does illustrate the point quite well. I would argue that there is a medium-sized pile from flooding and falls, and at least a small pile from entrapment.

Unless someone pipes up, so far not even an injury from the dreaded backwards rack.

Did you even click on the above link? There are plenty...

[Squirrel Girl]

When we were at Huautla in '94, Angel Soto backwards rigged his rack on a rebelay. It was zippering on him and the *ONLY* reason he didn't become a dead body at the bottom of the pit was because he was a gymnast. He looped his WRIST over the rebelay loop and hung there while he attached a jumar. 99-44/100 of people in that position would have been dead.

[Anonymous_Coward]

When we were at Huautla in '94, Angel Soto backwards rigged his rack on a rebelay. It was zippering on him and the *ONLY* reason he didn't become a dead body at the bottom of the pit was because he was a gymnast. He looped his WRIST over the rebelay loop and hung there while he attached a jumar. 99-44/100 of people in that position would have been dead.

[LukeM]

When we were at Huautla in '94, Angel Soto backwards rigged his rack on a rebelay. It was zippering on him and the *ONLY* reason he didn't become a dead body at the bottom of the pit was because he was a gymnast. He looped his WRIST over the rebelay loop and hung there while he attached a jumar. 99-44/100 of people in that position would have been dead.

His light had gone out right?

[Shaun Roundy]

Thanks, Andy and everyone, for the post and replies! I knew you'd be the right person to ask for info on this subject. I'm glad to hear that zippering has never (so far as we know) quite happened, and my presentation to the sheriff and SAR board was very well received.

FYI two nice things about rigging the Scarab:
1. Since the bar sticks out farther to one side, it's quite obvious when loaded backward (which is not to say it can't happen).
2. Once the rope is weighted, the bar slides down and locks into place even if rigged backward, though of course once the rope unweights, it could slide back to the center position where it could open.

Shaun Roundy
Utah County Sheriff SAR Mountain Rescue Team Sergeant

[l lambert]

Did you even click on the above link? There are plenty...

Well I clicked and all I found was one incident involving dropped bars,not backwards rigged bars. Could you point me to the plenty? Thanks!

[chh]

Am I the only one who thinks that if you can't rig a rack you shouldn't be on a SAR team? PERSONS might rig a rack wrong. TEAMS should not. What does it matter what you use as long as it is appropriate for the load and everyone knows how to use it?
Full Disclosure: I am not a part of any SAR team. Also, I'm crotchety. I guess we all had to wait 'till page 2 for the sixth post...though I can't say as I have anything pertinent to say about the government or the NSS. I will say that I AM a fan of cake. That is all.

[Stridergdm]

Am I the only one who thinks that if you can't rig a rack you shouldn't be on a SAR team? PERSONS might rig a rack wrong. TEAMS should not. What does it matter what you use as long as it is appropriate for the load and everyone knows how to use it?
Full Disclosure: I am not a part of any SAR team. Also, I'm crotchety. I guess we all had to wait 'till page 2 for the sixth post...though I can't say as I have anything pertinent to say about the government or the NSS. I will say that I AM a fan of cake. That is all.

No one should ever rig a rack wrong. But people do. People make mistakes, due to stress, being tired, being rushed, etc.