Basic Ascending Question

[GroundquestMSA]

I'm sorry if this has been an oft-adressed issue. I couldn't find it already posted but I had a hard time thinking of keywords...I'll do my best to be understandable.

I have my only difficulty when reaching the top of my ascents. When the rope lies against the rock for several feet, it's sometimes hard to raise that top ascender. I have been able to remove the upper ascender and move it past the point of contact on a couple of occasions but usually I have to yank the rope away from the wall and try to raise the ascender at the same time or push myself away from the wall with one arm while raising the ascender with the other. Is there any common way of easing such a challenge? I'm sure that many of you rig ropes directly over a drop and eliminate the problem, but I have never done any bolting and always use trees or rocks. Should I take the next step and get into bolting and more complex rigging or continue my current simplistic, lightweight, frugal approach?

[LWMM]

It helps a lot to plant your feet against the rock, which directs the rope away from the rock and thus gives you the ability to slide the ascender up. You do, of course, have to make sure that there is slack in your footloop cord, so that you can actually move the ascender, but that can be managed (or you could even just temporarily step out of the footloops).

If you do this, it can be useful to have two independent footloops, i.e., one cord, but two strands coming down from the ascender. Such a method lets you plant your feet independently of each other while still in the loops, giving you more maneuverability.


Or you could just pull out the chalk bag and start climbing.

[Cody JW]

I have always rigged a short line with a knot on the end that hangs a few feet down past the lip on just about any drop. This way you can put your upper ascender on it when negotiating the lip area if need be. This second rope does not have your weight on it so your ascender will easily move up it. I use a different color rope so everybody always knows the short line from the main line. If this rope is not too long it likely will not get tangled with the main line. Most of the time I never use it but it is there.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

I have a couple of methods for doing this:

I often turn 90 degrees so my side is against the rock and keep frogging as normal, having my side against the rock means your body is creating space between the rope and the rock (it's not as hard or painful as it sounds )

I often do as the previous poster suggested and drop one foot out of my (single) footloop and either use this to fend off the wall or put both feet against the wall to help fend it off. (my footloop is a bit small for 2 feet and a little large for 1 foot but perfect for being able to swap and change between the two, I don't like double footloops because I find people can't clamp the rope as easily nor do they generally frog with good form as thier feet tend to go everywhere)

The other not so graceful alternative is to kind of use your knees to help create space between the rope and the rock.

Mostly I use the first method, if it's an overhung lip I'll use the 2nd method getting my chest ascender up as high as possible first, knees sometimes works where the others don't and if it's easy climbing I'll climb up siding my ascenders as I go making sure I don't create any slack.

Curiously I've found a pantin really good when ascending against the rock on long angled pitches.

Hope it helps..

[Carl Amundson]

One method for creating a little space is to press one foot against the wall and keep the other in the footloop.
Ascend up on one leg and use the other leg to create space between you and the wall. I use this a lot.

Also, when you rig the drop, rig high if you can or use a redirect.
It makes it much easier to get over the lip is the rope is not lying against the ground.

[chh]

One method for creating a little space is to press one foot against the wall and keep the other in the footloop.
Ascend up on one leg and use the other leg to create space between you and the wall. I use this a lot.

It doesn't get simpler than this. KISS

[NZcaver]

One method for creating a little space is to press one foot against the wall and keep the other in the footloop.
Ascend up on one leg and use the other leg to create space between you and the wall. I use this a lot.

It doesn't get simpler than this. KISS

[mgmills]

One method for creating a little space is to press one foot against the wall and keep the other in the footloop.
Ascend up on one leg and use the other leg to create space between you and the wall. I use this a lot.

Also, when you rig the drop, rig high if you can or use a redirect.
It makes it much easier to get over the lip is the rope is not lying against the ground.

Tendency of inexperienced is to rig too low. I know this because my first pit was frustrating because my mentors were relatively new to rigging and rigged the tree too low.

[GroundquestMSA]

Thanks to all. I needed a few ideas and a lot more practice.

[OpenTrackRacer]

I'll second the suggestion to also use a Pantin. It really helps for this sort of situation.

Mike

[graveleye]

One method for creating a little space is to press one foot against the wall and keep the other in the footloop.
Ascend up on one leg and use the other leg to create space between you and the wall. I use this a lot.

It doesn't get simpler than this. KISS

Unless of course you don't have anywhere to put your foot against the wall like War Eagle Cave for instance. The lip is a severely undercut flowstone dome with almost nothing at all to wedge against. You pretty much have to just put your chin against the rock and wiggle up inch by inch. Even turning sideways doesn't help. Once you're chest is even with the lip you can get an arm under the rope and that helps but not much else.

[Jeff Bartlett]

Unless of course you don't have anywhere to put your foot against the wall like War Eagle Cave for instance. The lip is a severely undercut flowstone dome with almost nothing at all to wedge against. You pretty much have to just put your chin against the rock and wiggle up inch by inch. Even turning sideways doesn't help. Once you're chest is even with the lip you can get an arm under the rope and that helps but not much else.

Are you suggesting an alternate method, or just pointing out that some lips are really difficult (regardless of the ascending system or technique utilized) for the sake of pointing that out?

[John Lovaas]

Unless of course you don't have anywhere to put your foot against the wall like War Eagle Cave for instance...

or hang an etrier at the lip- that's how I got up and over at War Eagle.

[Extremeophile]

I must have been doing it wrong at War Eagle - didn't use my chin at all. I pushed against the flowstone with my left hand while sliding up my foot asender with the right and was past the lip in about 15 sec. I think I'll need to schedule another trip and try again.

I could see it taking longer if you don't want to scratch you shiny new ascenders.

[graveleye]

Are you suggesting an alternate method, or just pointing out that some lips are really difficult (regardless of the ascending system or technique utilized) for the sake of pointing that out?

yea some are just difficult and at best awkward. Experience makes them easier of course.

Although I am by no means what would be considered "advanced" vertical, I've got experience now that I didn't have at War Eagle. Telling on myself, I came as close to flailing there as I ever have. More than anything I made it more difficult by having psyched myself out because I had been warned it was hard. Getting over the psychological aspects of vertical work has been the biggest obstacle for me since I'm terrified of heights.

lol - I didn't actually use my chin, but darn near thought I would have to. Funny thing is that I brought an etrier and we didn't rig it.

Knowing what I know now I would zip right over it - I also need another trip there to prove it to myself.