Moderator: Tim White
ian mckenzie wrote:I feel that I should reinforce the shortcomings of the Figure 8 that have already been mentioned. It is very easy to drop, whereas other devices are specifically designed to be operated without having to detach them from your harness.
Extremeophile wrote:The Petzl Pirana seems to address most of the listed concerns with a traditional figure 8. It can't be dropped, has multiple rigging orientations to adjust for friction, additional friction can be easily added or removed while on rope, it can be easily locked off, and in my experience it doesn't twist the rope. I suppose some would argue that the device might heat up more resulting in some risk of glazing the rope, but I suspect this fear is more theoretical. I've done 300' canyoneering rappels and it has performed very well. I guess my main concern for caving is that a muddy rope might quickly cut through the soft aluminum shortening the life of the device. Are there other concerns I'm missing?
I like the simplicity, light weight and lack of moving parts. It's expensive for an 8, but cheap compared to a rack or Stop.
Jeff Bartlett wrote:I once tried to come up with 8 reasons that Figure 8s aren't the best choice for caving. I could only come up with 7:1. Must be detached from harness to be installed on the rope. Potential safety issue, or you could accidentally drop it. Obvious complication for changeovers and other rope maneuvers.
2. No half-lock, and full lock is awkward/slow.
3. Badly twists the rope; this is a minor nuisance in free drops and a semi-major problem if there is a rebelay somewhere.
4. Friction isn't adjustable, and you can't "dial in" that friction at the top of a pitch.
5. Eights without "ears" can invert into a girth hitch, a situation where you're stuck until you change over, and hopefully you're not stuck in a waterfall or a constriction.
6. Aluminum eights wear very, very quickly on muddy or gritty rope, forming sharp edges and/or getting dangerously thin.
7. Intended for use on flexible, dynamic climbing rope and not stiff, static caving rope.
That said, plenty of people use them and seem to be reasonably satisfied. You won't catch me trying it.
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