what knot do you use?

[slapout]

i am in utah rappeling when a ranger questioned my knot that tied my two 500 foot ropes together. I used a figure8 bend with a triple stopper knot on both sides. I know their are all sorts of knots that one can use but was something wrong with mine? I have used this method for a long time with no problems but always willing to learn more so what do you use?

[LukeM]

Sounds good to me. By "triple stopper" do you mean a triple overhand stopper? I'd just go with a double unless I had more tail to get rid of. Another good alternative to give yourself a loop at the join would be to use a figure 8 bend that incorporates a figure 8 on a bight. Then for a lower profile joining knot there's always the double fisherman's. That'll be harder to untie once loaded.

[Chads93GT]

I simply use a figure 8 with an overhand knot as a backup on the loose ends.

[NZcaver]

I don't think there was anything wrong with your choice there, although a figure 8 bend (or a bight) does not *require* a back up knot. This is a common misnomer, although it can be used to keep things tidy if you've misjudged and left too long a tail on your knot/bend. When two ropes join in mid-pitch, I personally try to leave enough tail to tie a small bight for clipping in a cowstail.

Besides the figure 8 bend, the double fishermans bend (aka grapevine) is a common choice for joining ropes. Some people like the sheet bend, because it's easier to untie after being loaded. The triple fishermans or figure 9 are generally considered better options for joining thinner diameter rope or cord.

[Extremeophile]

Figure 8 Bend (aka Flemish Bend) with tails facing away from each other is a good knot. Double Figure 8, where both tails face the same direction, is very dangerous - the knot will roll under tension and may come undone even with long tails. There have been a number of fatalities.

[Marlatt]

I've become a reluctant convert to the EDK, with long tails. It looks a little sketch, but tests well, ties quickly, easy to inspect, and low profile means fewer snags.

swm

[NZcaver]

I'd forgotten about the long tail EDK, which seems to be pretty common among climbers. I'm thinking an EDK with the tails tied together with a double fishermans (making a bight to clip to) might work well for rappelling.

Derek - good point about never using a figure 8 "EDK-style." Potentially lethal!

[self-deleted_user]

What is "EDK"?
(I like knots! Probably the coolest part of vertical stuff lol)

And how would you tie a double fisherman with a bight?

[NZcaver]

What is "EDK"?
(I like knots! Probably the coolest part of vertical stuff lol)

Glad you asked. EDK stands for European Death Knot. I'm not kidding. Cool name, huh?


(With this one you really should leave longer tails.)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_death-knot

[NZcaver]

And how would you tie a double fisherman with a bight?

Like this.

[Anonymous_Coward]

I prefer the Figure 8 bend (no backup knots) but have used the EDK on difficult rope pulls where the knot must slide over an edge. The best way to back it up is with a second EDK. The second one will keep the first one from rolling off the end of the rope. (the cause of the proverbial European deaths)

I have been told (without evidence) that the figure 8 bend is preferable to the EDK or double fishermans when joining two ropes of different diameters. Of course a sheet bend works for that too, but who the hell remembers how to tie one of those?!?!?

[self-deleted_user]

What is "EDK"?
(I like knots! Probably the coolest part of vertical stuff lol)

Glad you asked. EDK stands for European Death Knot. I'm not kidding. Cool name, huh?


(With this one you really should leave longer tails.)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_death-knot

So it's just...an overhand joining the two ropes?
thats...safe?

And ahh ok on the double fishermans...I was trying to figure out how in the middle you'd get a bight, not on a tail like that, makes sense! :)

[slapout]

it was a figure 8 bend not an EDK. Also the reason for the triple overhand stopper was due in part of our heavy load kayacks and camping gear.Ranger Bob recomended 2 figure 8 loop follow through with a carabiner between them. I had never heard of useing this method though it might work i stick to what i know does

[NZcaver]

So it's just...an overhand joining the two ropes?
thats...safe?

Haven't you heard? Nothing involving ropes, caves, or other scary things is ever totally safe.

But yes, the EDK is a common method of joining ropes used mostly by climbers to avoid snagging when the rope is pulled up or down a rock face. It probably wouldn't be my first choice for joining ropes for rappelling/caving.

[self-deleted_user]

LOL well duh :P I just thought overhands were basically crap knots to use in general for life support.